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Shut up. Was just a point I was putting across
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Greatest cricketers since 1980
- Thread starter bagapath
- Start date
weldone
Hall of Fame Member
ha ha ... ponting vs murali discussion was going in this lines for sure ...
but you can't type this here....sanga is not an aussie afterall...
weldone
Hall of Fame Member
This forum isn't your father's property that I have to shut up when you say.
G.I.Joe
International Coach
four_or_six
Cricketer Of The Year
Seriously guys, this is at least the third warning in this thread to be civil and everyone keeps ignoring them. I'm closing the thread for a few hours, I'll open it later and if everyone can be civil then it'll stay open. If not, I'll close it again for good.
vcs
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Australia's reaction after losing Ashes 2005 was the greatest response to a challenge I've seen by any team in my time watching sports.. and that defeat wasn't anything to be ashamed of at all considering the quality of cricket England played in that series. Ponting obviously deserves his share of credit for being at the helm of that team.
Having said that, I still don't think Ponting's record-breaking winning percentage makes him a better captain than some of the names mentioned in this thread considering the type of personalities that team had... they were all champions and natural winners. Using Ponting's winning percentage to imply that it makes him one of the all-time great captains is a bit disingenuous IMO, and a bit unfair to the rest of the team.
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Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
It's one thing to lead a team to victory and another thing to only be responsible for yourself.
I don't think it is disingenuous at all to put him in the top handful of captains - if you are counting ODIs too. He is certainly amongst the better test captains. Waugh had a comparable team as captain and even his record is not as good - that's of course, discounting the period after the team pretty much changed. In fact, pre 08, Ponting had only lost 3 tests as captain. Not even Bradman as captain has that kind of record. To say "yeh but his team was good" misses the point. A good contrast is Imran's captaincy and the kudos he gets for putting together big talents and egos and making them a team.
TBH, I am not here to really argue for Ponting's captaincy. The point is he was a better captain than both Lara and Tendulkar. His fielding is matched by very few. His batting is no less than Tendulkar and Lara - despite what their fans wish to think. He has an awesome legacy as it is. For me, that simply puts him a cut above them.
FTR, I am not just talking about how much a cricketer contributed to a team as if it's an exercise to look for the best all-rounder. You look at the legacy of the player too. I mean, all-round, Chris Cairns was probably a better cricketer than McGrath, but I simply wouldn't name the two in the same breath in terms of "great" cricketers.
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Sir Alex
Banned
Ikki, I was wrong.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
aussie tragic
International Captain
Missed the first 20 pages Bagapath, but I informally put you on "Ignore" for listing Lillee as a level 2 
....okay, I understand your reasoning but I still can't accept it as he's my avatar 
....okay, I understand your reasoning but I still can't accept it as he's my avatar 
Furball
Evil Scotsman
In the post McGrath-Warne era, Ponting's Test captaincy record reads as follows:
P36 W20 D7 L9
Series results: P12 W8 D1 L3
That's hardly a terrible record.
Included in that record is the South Africa away series. Let's have a little bit of context about that series.
South Africa went to Australia on a run of supreme form in the 2 years previous: South Africa won home series against India and Pakistan, an away series in Pakistan, a home series against West Indies, beaten Bangladesh away and drawn in India, before winning a series in England for the first time since re-admission and despatching Bangladesh again at home. South Africa then went to Australia and became the first touring side for 16 years to inflict a Test series defeat on Australia. While the rankings may have disagreed, it was clear Australia were in a bit of a decline, and South Africa were clearly the number 1 side in the world.
Australia then made the trip across the Indian Ocean for the return series. Matthew Hayden had retired. Andrew Symonds had fallen foul of the team management. Brett Lee and Stuart Clark were injured. Australia went into the first Test with 2 debutants in their top 6: Philip Hughes, and Marcus North. The bowling attack picked for the series was as follows:
Mitchell Johnson: the "experienced" leader of the attack who had made his Test debut 18 months previously, and who had played in just 18 Tests prior to the series.
Peter Siddle, who had debuted in India and replaced Stuart Clark for the home series, who was the second most experienced member of the attack, having played just 4 Tests.
Ben Hilfenhaus: another debutant.
Andrew McDonald: an all rounder with 1 Test worth of experience
Bryce McGain: a veteran leg-spinner who had had some solid Shield form, no Test experience.
Despite South Africa's wonderful form prior to the series, despite Australia's relative decline, having lost series to India and South Africa, despite the massive inexperience in the Australian line up, Australia crushed a full strength South Africa side in the first 2 Tests and won the series 2-1. I don't think I can talk up the enormity of that achievement enough.
I personally don't think Ponting is a great captain, but you are massively downplaying what he has done with this Australian side in the past 2 years.
Sir Alex
Banned
Cal,
How many of those victories have come up against NZ, WI, Pakistan?
Fact is that Australia has dominated at home, and dominated the lesser countries, while failing in away series, with exception of SA. Yes, they have lost players, but for a long time Australia were considered as the team with the best bench strength.
Fact is Australia of 2010 is still at pretty much the same level, if not gone down, as it was in 2007.
People cannot have one half of it, like praising as if Ponting was the chief architect behind Australia 2004-07.. He inherited a great team and ran with it for 3-4 years before the greats fizzled out, and now, he had his opportunity to build a team on his own, but really hasn't been spectacular in that aspect.
I don't think Ponting is a terrible captain, and I don't think he is a great either. He is just average, with a good cricketing brain and I need some sleep badly. Good night.
How many of those victories have come up against NZ, WI, Pakistan?
Fact is that Australia has dominated at home, and dominated the lesser countries, while failing in away series, with exception of SA. Yes, they have lost players, but for a long time Australia were considered as the team with the best bench strength.
Fact is Australia of 2010 is still at pretty much the same level, if not gone down, as it was in 2007.
People cannot have one half of it, like praising as if Ponting was the chief architect behind Australia 2004-07.. He inherited a great team and ran with it for 3-4 years before the greats fizzled out, and now, he had his opportunity to build a team on his own, but really hasn't been spectacular in that aspect.
I don't think Ponting is a terrible captain, and I don't think he is a great either. He is just average, with a good cricketing brain and I need some sleep badly. Good night.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
WTH, I thought I did. Yeh, it's on. I guess win/draw for England is yours and win for Australia is mine.Answer me you ****
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Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
The funny thing is, you don't even praise Ponting in that period. Steve Waugh also took over a great side. You have to go back to Border and Taylor to get Australia anywhere near not being dominant.
Another thing, India has been mainly winning series at home too. The only notable away series win they have is against England, also. You try to play down the record due to weaker sides, yet don't acknowledge that in the period GF talks about we've lost 6-7 of our regulars - Warne, McGrath, Langer, Hayden, Gilchrist, Lee and Clark.
And when you look at the make-up of the two sides now...come on.
Personally, I predict that in a year or two this side will be much stronger when we have a more experienced team. We'll then be talking about how Ponting guided a 'new' Australia back to the top.
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