****OFFICIAL**** Lara vs Tendulkar Debate Thread

[vcs]

Sir Alex, can you find out Sachin's Test strike-rate statistics over his career? cricinfo doesn't list it, presumably because "Balls Faced" wasn't available for some of the earliest Tests he played.

 

[honestbharani]

Curious, how'd you backup that statement?

Lara's last year was pretty mediocre, although I agree he was still better than 99% other WI batsmen

depends on what you mean by mediocre.. Lara was smashing it against the Aussies and was playing Tait (the quickest thing around back then) as easily as anyone ever did in that WC... As I said, I don't really recall him being bad at any point then.. Maybe during the INdia series he wasn't his usual self but really, Lara had a thing of getting out to mediocre INdian bowlers like Sachin does with a Fernando or other newbies.. Basically, I don't think I have seen anything to change my opinion yet on the matter. Lara by the whiskerest of whiskers (used to a real whisker earlier but Sachin HAS gotten better since that Aussie tour in 2007/2008.) but Sachin overall, clearly.

 

[Sir Alex]

Sir Alex, can you find out Sachin's Test strike-rate statistics over his career? cricinfo doesn't list it, presumably because "Balls Faced" wasn't available for some of the earliest Tests he played.

Nearly impossible task, as SRs for his earlier career wouldn't be available. It must be around 54.5.

 

[honestbharani]

Not meaning Lara was not an ATG, but suggesting that the contention is flawed

No, I meant the times cricket is being played in.. BTW, I am not sure if any real record exists for this but is there way to see overall SRs in test cricket year by year since 2000 or so?

 

[vcs]

No, I meant the times cricket is being played in.. BTW, I am not sure if any real record exists for this but is there way to see overall SRs in test cricket year by year since 2000 or so?

This is what I'd like to see as well for Sachin, preferably from 91-92 or whenever they started keeping track of balls faced.

 

[Sir Alex]

depends on what you mean by mediocre.. Lara was smashing it against the Aussies and was playing Tait (the quickest thing around back then) as easily as anyone ever did in that WC... As I said, I don't really recall him being bad at any point then.. Maybe during the INdia series he wasn't his usual self but really, Lara had a thing of getting out to mediocre INdian bowlers like Sachin does with a Fernando or other newbies.. Basically, I don't think I have seen anything to change my opinion yet on the matter. Lara by the whiskerest of whiskers (used to a real whisker earlier but Sachin HAS gotten better since that Aussie tour in 2007/2008.) but Sachin overall, clearly.

Fair enough. Lara's retirement decision surely generated more "Why now?"s than "Why not?"s.

Could you please also explain why you think Lara has not got worse in the last 3 years? Because I can remember him not able to buy a run in 2007 end ICL (agreed it is 20/20 and all that, but he wasn't even middling it). I cannot recollect any other cricketing event he took part in otherwise.

 

[honestbharani]

Fair enough. Lara's retirement decision surely generated more "Why now?"s than "Why not?"s.

Could you please also explain why you think Lara has not got worse in the last 3 years? Because I can remember him not able to buy a run in 2007 end ICL (agreed it is 20/20 and all that, but he wasn't even middling it). I cannot recollect any other cricketing event he took part in otherwise.

rofl.. I meant Lara has not gotten any worse since 2007 coz, well........., he has not played.



What I really mean to say is that Sachin's improvement and form have been spectacular but then Lara has not even played since then, so in my mind at least, that can't be the clincher.

 

[Sir Alex]

No, I meant the times cricket is being played in.. BTW, I am not sure if any real record exists for this but is there way to see overall SRs in test cricket year by year since 2000 or so?

I have Sachin's SRs since 1991 below (covers 157 off 168 matches)

Year	Tests	Runs	Avg	SR
1991	2	78	 19.50 	 39.59 
1992	7	419	 41.90 	 56.62 
1993	8	640	 91.42 	 48.01 
1994	7	700	 70.00 	 59.37 
1995	3	58	 29.00 	 58.00 
1996	8	623	 41.53 	 48.78 
1997	12	1000	 62.50 	 50.78 
1998	5	647	 80.87 	 75.40 
1999	10	1088	 68.00 	 56.43 
2000	6	575	 63.88 	 60.27 
2001	10	1003	 62.68 	 57.15 
2002	16	1392	 55.68 	 54.20 
2003	5	153	 17.00 	 39.63 
2004	10	915	 91.50 	 56.10 
2005	6	444	 44.40 	 44.00 
2006	8	267	 24.27 	 53.50 
2007	9	776	 55.42 	 52.32 
2008	13	1063	 48.31 	 57.11 
2009	6	541	 67.62 	 55.83 
2010	6	772	 96.50 	 60.07

And Lara's entire career SRs as below year wise

Year	Tests	Runs	Avg	SR
1990	1	49	 24.50 	46.22
1992	3	195	 32.50 	48.14
1993	7	586	 58.60 	69.76
1994	8	996	 71.14 	63.39
1995	12	1222	 67.88 	73.61
1996	5	226	 25.11 	53.3
1997	12	859	 40.90 	58.79
1998	9	608	 43.42 	55.12
1999	8	832	 59.42 	58.92
2000	9	497	 29.23 	58.95
2001	9	1151	 63.94 	50.81
2002	7	351	 35.10 	50.5
2003	10	1344	 74.66 	63.12
2004	12	1178	 58.90 	61.38
2005	9	1110	 65.29 	66.34
2006	10	749	 41.61 	60.06

 

[vcs]

Thanks for that.

 

[Sir Alex]

rofl.. I meant Lara has not gotten any worse since 2007 coz, well........., he has not played.



What I really mean to say is that Sachin's improvement and form have been spectacular but then Lara has not even played since then, so in my mind at least, that can't be the clincher.

Everything being equal, playing is better than not playing, especially when Tendulkar debuted earlier than the Prince, and has continued for another 3 years since the latter retired

 

[honestbharani]

Everything being equal, playing is better than not playing, especially when Tendulkar debuted earlier than the Prince, and has continued for another 3 years since the latter retired

All Viv Richards' fault, tbh.. The King denied The Prince.

 

[Sir Alex]

All Viv Richards' fault, tbh.. The King denied The Prince.

I'd politely disagree. Lara's FC performances till he got into squad to Pak in winter 1990 was as below:

[B]Season	Played in	Matches	Runs	HS	Ave	100	50[/B]
1987-88	(West Indies)	4	145	92	 29.00 	0	1
1988-89	(West Indies)	8	567	182	 51.54 	2	1
1989-90	(Zimbabwe)	3	187	145	 62.33 	1	0
1989-90	(West Indies)	5	313	134	 31.30 	1	0
[B]Overall			20	1212	182	 41.79 	4	2[/B]

 

[Sanz]

Lara was pretty ****ing epic in the last 3 or 4 years of his career.

I didn't say he wasn't, what I am saying is Tendulkar has gone beyond those heights, he has left Lara way behind in run scoring and to me that clearly furthur adds to Tendulkar's legacy, something that Lara can't have anymore.

 

[honestbharani]

I'd politely disagree. Lara's FC performances till he got into squad to Pak in winter 1990 was as below:

[B]Season	Played in	Matches	Runs	HS	Ave	100	50[/B]
1987-88	(West Indies)	4	145	92	 29.00 	0	1
1988-89	(West Indies)	8	567	182	 51.54 	2	1
1989-90	(Zimbabwe)	3	187	145	 62.33 	1	0
1989-90	(West Indies)	5	313	134	 31.30 	1	0
[B]Overall			20	1212	182	 41.79 	4	2[/B]

That 88 and 89 would have got him into the side, and I would wager it was similar stats that got Sachin in anyways..

 

[Furball]

I didn't say he wasn't, what I am saying is Tendulkar has gone beyond those heights, he has left Lara way behind in run scoring and to me that clearly furthur adds to Tendulkar's legacy, something that Lara can't have anymore.

Out of interest, I'd be interested to compare Sachin's record in the last however many Tests, and the equivelant from the end of Lara's career.

 

[Sir Alex]

That 88 and 89 would have got him into the side, and I would wager it was similar stats that got Sachin in anyways..

With Tendulkar, his first year in FC was continuation of a sterling record he maintained since his schooldays. Lara had a poor first season, a good second season and a poor third season. Hardly stuff to "replace" someone like Viv.

 

[Sanz]

lol.. Lara was forced to retire at 37 when he was still better than any Windies batsmen and perhaps better than most batsmen in the world... I can see the reasons why Sachin could be considered better than Lara but I don't think that is one of them... And there is no real "settled" to this anyhow because Lara has not gotten any worse since 2007, even though Tendulkar has gotten better. It has always been, and will always be, down to personal preference. Just dont see any definitive or qualititive answer to this Vs question at all...

Well it is settled for me, I didn't say it was settled for everyone and TBH,you will never concede that Tendy is better than Lara even if Tendy played another 20 years and scored with same fluency. Not that it matters much, we all have our preferences .

 

[honestbharani]

With Tendulkar, his first year in FC was continuation of a sterling record he maintained since his schooldays. Lara had a poor first season, a good second season and a poor third season. Hardly stuff to "replace" someone like Viv.

you do understand the word "context" right? depends on how the averages of others were in the same games.. I know for a fact that he happened to have played on some pretty green tracks back then in the Windies, coz that is mentioned by most of his chroniclers.

 

[honestbharani]

Well it is settled for me, I didn't say it was settled for everyone and TBH,you will never concede that Tendy is better than Lara even if Tendy played another 20 years and scored with same fluency. Not that it matters much, we all have our preferences .

well, he is yet to improve on the area which I feel is the main reason I lean towards Lara being the better test batsman.. Making BIG hundreds. But yes you are right, there are certain things that can't be done. For instance, Sachin cannot again go back to batting for a downright poor team and it is not his fault but Lara did do it. I don't really see why that can be a problem and as I have posted earlier, I do think the Sachin post 2007 Australia tour is, for me, a much closer contender to Lara as a test batsman than he was earlier.

 

[Sir Alex]

Out of interest, I'd be interested to compare Sachin's record in the last however many Tests, and the equivelant from the end of Lara's career.

Lara's last 35 tests, (from 2003-04 season till end)

P 35
I 64
R 3549
Avg 56.33
100s : 13