The Power of Hypocrisy - an anti BCCI rant

[jeevan]

If you're just going to flat out lie about what I say, there is no point in me having a discussion with you.

BTW needs to be pointed that you're not above making sweeping generalizations yourself, which often spill into factual errors too (This thread has examples of it, fwiw).

 

[silentstriker]

But I still don't agree with this. So lets' agree to disagree on this one, just like the Spinners Vs Fast bowlers junk..

Still not quite sure what we're disagreeing on? That BCCI is less transparent than ECB or ACB? Or that such lack of transparency shouldn't be held against them?

 

[jeevan]

Ok, did not see the restriction to the last 20 years but you did bring up the WC which was longer than 20 years ago. You can't really blame CA for rebel tours. They did everything possible to stop international cricket in SA, including banning these players. And of course there were no rebel tours from India or Pakistan, that was the whole point of apartheid. The BCCI response to Zimbabwe was poor, to say the least. A country had a policy in place only to play black players and BCCI was doing everything in their power to stop them being banned from test cricket.

Was this official ZC policy? Since folks like Brendan Taylor were in the team throughout and Tatenda Taibu as bad a victim of the ZC as the white players? (Not up to speed on racial classification myself, I think Taylor is white?)

Also wouldn't that hurt cricket players in Zimbabwe even more? (Akin to Howard's objections to sanctions on SA. I'd classify both stances as disingenuous, except I don't know if ZC had a formal policy on race or a de facto "suck up to me or go" policy, which are not the same. In any case I don't know enough about Zimbabwe internal stuff to have an intelligent discussion except to vaguely be aware that Mugabe & his friends are quite a repugnant bunch by practically any standards).

 

[honestbharani]

Still not quite sure what we're disagreeing on? That BCCI is less transparent than ECB or ACB? Or that such lack of transparency shouldn't be held against them?

That BCCI has done just as much for helping cricket reach its heights as ECB or CA have done.. Transparency or no transparency. And that it has done quite a LOT of good for cricket in its role now as the leading board for cricket...


No transparency and corruption, yes, they are there with BCCI but let us not pretend as if they have no right to run the game when the same stuff exists to perhaps varying degrees with other boards, including ECB and CA... And give credit where credit is due.

 

[Debris]

Was this official ZC policy? Since folks like Brendan Taylor were in the team throughout and Tatenda Taibu as bad a victim of the ZC as the white players? (Not up to speed on racial classification myself, I think Taylor is white?)

Also wouldn't that hurt cricket players in Zimbabwe even more? (Akin to Howard's objections to sanctions on SA. I'd classify both stances as disingenuous, except I don't know if ZC had a formal policy on race or a de facto "suck up to me or go" policy, which are not the same. In any case I don't know enough about Zimbabwe internal stuff to have an intelligent discussion except to vaguely be aware that Mugabe & his friends are quite a repugnant bunch by practically any standards).

Yes, it most definitely was for some time Zimbabwe's policy not to select white players and they did drop them all from the side for a time. You can go back and read the articles from the time if you don't believe me. This was when Mugabe basically took over Zimbabwe cricket personally. And, frankly, he did not care about cricket at all except as a political tool.

They should have been instantly banned from cricket at this point. It was only the influence of the BCCI that stopped this happening. Australia ended up being the only country to refuse to play them at all with this policy in place.

 

[Debris]

No one's blaming CA or ECB for the rebel tours. That's different from crediting CA with resisting apartheid. Everyone did that.

There was a rebel tour, or 2 don't recall, from WI consisting of non-white players. Ditto one from SL. So it was ot only whites who played in SA.

So for whatever reasons, India & Pakistan (perhaps NZ) were the places to really have no formal or rebel tours. (Btw, I don't know if you're aware or not that MK Gandhi started his civil disobedience approach against apartheid in SA where he was practicing law before moving back to India and really developing that approach as a political tool. So there is a deep anti-apartheid link with India, which was one of the first countries Mandela visited upon being freed.)

I am aware of Gandhi's role in fighting apartheid (favourite movie of mine). What has that to do with the BCCI? And again, rebel tours have nothing to do with the cricketing boards so I have no idea of your point here Indian players may be more honourable (or had less money thrown at them) but this says nothing about the board.

 

[Debris]

Watched an episode of Cricket Up Close just this afternoon.. Ian Chappell was going on about how Aussie administrators tried to put a stop on the no. of bouncers because their side were just not good enough against it.... Another example CA or ACB having the good of the game over their and their teams' own welfare at heart, huh?



The point is, no one is questioning Australia has done a lot of good for cricket but that is how it goes in everything in life... By your reasoning, I should be telling all and sundry that if it weren't for the fact that Indian ancestors inventing zero, there would have been very little development in the world till now.... And yes, afaic, no matter how corrupt and selfish BCCI guys are, they still do quite a bit that helps cricket. Their reasons may not be good but there are quite a few moves that has and does help cricket. And let us not pretend that ECB and ACB/CA were angels who never thought of helping themselves at the cost of other teams.. Coz they so obviously did so many times...

Ian Chappell is hardly an unbiased source when it comes to administrators. I would not trust anything he has to say in this regard. And at what point were Australians bad at handling bouncers? This has always been a strong point of Australian batting.

I think you need to state more specifically where you think CA has helped themselves at the cost of others so it is out in the open. I certainly cannot think of anything in the league of what the BCCI is doing.

 

[Debris]

They are no angels mate.. They hushed up Mark Waugh and Shane Warne's bookie contacts... And their umpires have been just as bad as ours reg. decisions in home tests... And they went to change the rules when they realized their team was being found out... Lets face it.. We don't live in a perfect world. The men with power will ALWAYS try to do something good for themselves and their ilk... It happened with them in charge and it will happen with us in charge and it will continue to happen whoever else is in charge.. The whole thing of "my board > ur board" is extremely foolish and only continues to live because SS lives in this bubble where BCCI are the worst and the other boards never do anything wrong... Maybe it is becoz he is American..

The changing the rules to benefit Australia is just out and out rubbish. And what does the standard of umpiring have to do with this thread? As for the Warne/Waugh bookmaker scandal, it was handled poorly by CA in reflection. They should have done more than just report it to the ICC and fine them. In CA's defense though, the players did give themselves up voluntarily and CA had no experience in handling this type of thing. This was also well before the match-fixing scandals broke (no suggestion that Warne or Waugh tried to fix games in any way).

 

[honestbharani]

Ian Chappell is hardly an unbiased source when it comes to administrators. I would not trust anything he has to say in this regard. And at what point were Australians bad at handling bouncers? This has always been a strong point of Australian batting.

I think you need to state more specifically where you think CA has helped themselves at the cost of others so it is out in the open. I certainly cannot think of anything in the league of what the BCCI is doing.

Please enlighten as to what exactly is the BCCI "doing", in your opinion?

 

[honestbharani]

Ian Chappell is hardly an unbiased source when it comes to administrators. I would not trust anything he has to say in this regard. And at what point were Australians bad at handling bouncers? This has always been a strong point of Australian batting.

I think you need to state more specifically where you think CA has helped themselves at the cost of others so it is out in the open. I certainly cannot think of anything in the league of what the BCCI is doing.

Of course, Ian Chappell is a good souce.. He is talking abt Aus Vs Windies cricket in the 80s, and I figure he would know quite a bit more about it than others..


As an aside, I do think limiting the bouncers is a fair thing, but that is an example of Australia doing it only when it was hurting their side... And that is how it goes with all boards.

 

[honestbharani]

The changing the rules to benefit Australia is just out and out rubbish. And what does the standard of umpiring have to do with this thread? As for the Warne/Waugh bookmaker scandal, it was handled poorly by CA in reflection. They should have done more than just report it to the ICC and fine them. In CA's defense though, the players did give themselves up voluntarily and CA had no experience in handling this type of thing. This was also well before the match-fixing scandals broke (no suggestion that Warne or Waugh tried to fix games in any way).

I am not gonna trust Waugh and Warne blindly like some Aussie supporter... I think an investigation would have shed a lot MORE light into what actually went on than what was reported. So that is a BIG BIG mistake by CA right there...

And as for wanting to change rules when your team is found out, check what Chappell had to say about the bouncer rules and Australia/Windies cricket...


I am saying this again and again. I am not trying to say CA did nothing for cricket.. They have done a lot but quite a few of it was motivated by personal needs juz like how it is happening with BCCI...

 

[Sir Alex]

The biggest benefactor also stand to receive the biggest brickbats. That's how ungrateful the world is.

 

[Sanz]

They are no angels mate.. They hushed up Mark Waugh and Shane Warne's bookie contacts... And their umpires have been just as bad as ours reg. decisions in home tests... And they went to change the rules when they realized their team was being found out... Lets face it.. We don't live in a perfect world. The men with power will ALWAYS try to do something good for themselves and their ilk... It happened with them in charge and it will happen with us in charge and it will continue to happen whoever else is in charge.. The whole thing of "my board > ur board" is extremely foolish and only continues to live because SS lives in this bubble where BCCI are the worst and the other boards never do anything wrong... Maybe it is becoz he is American..

Yes ACB did cover up Warne/Waugh incident, but are you seriously arguing that BCCI is better (or even equal) of ACB in any way ? Even in the Waugh/Warne incident, CA took prompt action and punished its players and at the same time protected them. It also took steps so that such thing did not happen again. (No such incident has been reported since whereas in case of BCCI and Indian Cricket, match fixing rumors are very much there.

While you are giving credit to BCCI for taking actions on match fixing, let's not forget the fact that BCCI knew all along that match fixing was going on for almost a decade and it kept looking the other way and at times ordered a sham enquiry. It took actions only after Delhi Police blew their cover and Indian fans lost their faith in Indian Cricketers. BCCI took actions when its own interest was in danger, it never cared for its players or it fans. It still does not.

 

[Sanz]

The biggest benefactor also stand to receive the biggest brickbats. That's how ungrateful the world is.

Welcome Back Sir Alex. Good to see you back on CW.

 

[Sir Alex]

Welcome Back Sir Alex. Good to see you back on CW.

Thanks Sanz.

 

[silentstriker]

The biggest benefactor also stand to receive the biggest brickbats. That's how ungrateful the world is.

 

[Flem274*]

So what happens now?

Does John Anderson get the gig?

 

[honestbharani]

Yes ACB did cover up Warne/Waugh incident, but are you seriously arguing that BCCI is better (or even equal) of ACB in any way ? Even in the Waugh/Warne incident, CA took prompt action and punished its players and at the same time protected them. It also took steps so that such thing did not happen again. (No such incident has been reported since whereas in case of BCCI and Indian Cricket, match fixing rumors are very much there.

While you are giving credit to BCCI for taking actions on match fixing, let's not forget the fact that BCCI knew all along that match fixing was going on for almost a decade and it kept looking the other way and at times ordered a sham enquiry. It took actions only after Delhi Police blew their cover and Indian fans lost their faith in Indian Cricketers. BCCI took actions when its own interest was in danger, it never cared for its players or it fans. It still does not.

You know my stand on this well, Sanz.. I ain't saying BCCI are gr8 or necessarily better. I juz think they have done a LOT more to development of cricket than wat guys like SS and Debris would want us to believe and I think regardless of who is in power, they ll always try to get their own way.. That is how ECB and CA did and that is what BCCI is doing.


As far as transparency and accountability are concerned, that is a totally different topic and yes I am as critical of the BCCI for that as anyone.. But when your only beef is that they are corrupt to be running cricket, it needs to be pointed out they have got a LOT right inspite of being corrupt and stuff and that, as the lead governing body, they are doing just as well as Australia and England's boards did during their time.. End of story.

 

[Debris]

Please enlighten as to what exactly is the BCCI "doing", in your opinion?

Take the topic of this thread for starters. There was an agreement in place that there would be a rotational policy in place which lasted exactly as long as it suited BCCI and no longer. And the people India have put up have been far less acceptable.

They are trying to force other countries into not playing cricket while IPL is on.

They took no action at all against Harbajan Singh and used the threat of a cancelled tour to get their way when he was found to have uttered racist comments.

As I have said before, protected Zimbabwe while it had out and out racist policies just to shore up their power base.

These are just a few of the issues that I have with the BCCI. What were your issues with CA? And I would say that even if CA and ECB acted badly in the past, that is very dubious moral ground for excusing BCCI actions now.

 

[Shaggy Alfresco]

Who cares? Christ.