*Official* South Africa in West Indies

[WindieWeathers]

Let Walton go to England, and play in the A team there....

He will gain valuable experience playing on seaming pitches on that tour. If he continues to improve, the way he has in Bangladesh, then yes, bring him in for Ramdin.

However, it's one thing scoring runs on batting tracks in Bangladesh against poor bowlers, but it's quite another to do so on seaming pitches where you have to move your feet against higher-quality county bowlers. The A team tour of England is going to be quite a wakeup call for a few WI players....

So we should just stick with a poor player in poor form (Ramdin) without looking at other options? great idea Mike!! , we won't get anywhere if we just let poor performances slide time and time again, if not Walton then i'd give Thomas a chance, he's proven himself with the bat before and we haven't got much to lose to be honest.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I've heard the Jamaican leg is in doubt because of the situation there regarding violence in Kingston.. Not good news.. I hope there is a relocation instead of an outright cancellation.. I'm dieing to see some test cricket

Don't worry about it, the WICB are dealing with the issue right now and i'm sure it will be relocated if the situation in Kingston hasn't improved.

 

[shivfan]

Nomore domestic competition in West Indies???

Are you serious?

Yes, the domestic competition was truncated this season, and ended in March - yet another silly, short-sighted decision by the WICB....

 

[shivfan]

So we should just stick with a poor player in poor form (Ramdin) without looking at other options? great idea Mike!! , we won't get anywhere if we just let poor performances slide time and time again, if not Walton then i'd give Thomas a chance, he's proven himself with the bat before and we haven't got much to lose to be honest.

You have to ask yourself an important question - is the wicketkeeper in the side primarily as a batsman, or as a gloveman? My personal view is that the best gloveman should be your keeper, and in that regard, Ramdin is heads and shoulders above the rest. Michael Holding always says that as a fast bowler, he wanted to see the best gloveman behind the stumps, and I concur with him....

Now, obviously that's for Tests, where wicketkeeping is so much more important. Maybe the argument could be made for a stopper behind the stumps for the shortened version of the game. Thomas was in and out of the Windwards team, so since he wasn't able to cement a place in that side, why is he suddenly touted as a West Indies prospect? Also, he hasn't played any competitive cricket since March, thanks to the WICB's shortened domestic season....

Walton has more to learn from touring England with the A team, than being thrown in at the deep end against the Saffers in the Caribbean, IMHO. Let Walton learn how to keep and bat in English conditions before he's selected for the WI team. He's never going to get a chance like that again. Let's not be short-sighted in our armchair selections, and think of the bigger picture, the long-term solutions.

 

[Beamer]

Thomas was in and out of the Windwards team, so since he wasn't able to cement a place in that side, why is he suddenly touted as a West Indies prospect?

Not quite true. Thomas is the Leewards number 1 keeper but was injured and replaced by Hamilton. Thomas was an extremely impressive Under 19 keeper/batsman (like Ramdin), he has been touted from an early age (like Ramdin). Also, the reason why he is a Windies prospect is that he has played and done very well at A team level against the Bangladesh and England touring teams. After his injury he dissappeared off the radar inexplicably, only to be found training with the senior side over the last few days.

If we follow the Ramdin precedent than Thomas would be a more than fair selection as Ramdin was selected after scoring 1 FC hundred based on his Under 19 promise.

Desperate times call for desperate measures and IMHO you are far too patient with these losers Mike!!!!!!!

 

[akilana]

He was being sarcastic.

didn't realize that he's replyin to another post.

 

[WindieWeathers]

You have to ask yourself an important question - is the wicketkeeper in the side primarily as a batsman, or as a gloveman? My personal view is that the best gloveman should be your keeper, and in that regard, Ramdin is heads and shoulders above the rest. Michael Holding always says that as a fast bowler, he wanted to see the best gloveman behind the stumps, and I concur with him....

Now, obviously that's for Tests, where wicketkeeping is so much more important. Maybe the argument could be made for a stopper behind the stumps for the shortened version of the game. Thomas was in and out of the Windwards team, so since he wasn't able to cement a place in that side, why is he suddenly touted as a West Indies prospect? Also, he hasn't played any competitive cricket since March, thanks to the WICB's shortened domestic season....

Walton has more to learn from touring England with the A team, than being thrown in at the deep end against the Saffers in the Caribbean, IMHO. Let Walton learn how to keep and bat in English conditions before he's selected for the WI team. He's never going to get a chance like that again. Let's not be short-sighted in our armchair selections, and think of the bigger picture, the long-term solutions.

Your notion that "Ramdin is by far the best gloves man" is outdated and quite frankly a cop out Mike, Walton in his second FC season got 38 dismissals behind the stumps, which was the second-highest in the competition, he also scored 546 runs with three fifties, and in his only Test series against Bangledash he equaled Ridley Jacobs' record with five dismissals in a single innings, so Mike the kid is more than capable with the gloves,

His form right now for the A-team has gone from strength to strength with both the gloves and bat, he's taking catches and scoring runs, what more do you want from him? you always seem to have an excuse to give the status quo another chance while our team continues to fail again and again, i couldn't give a monkeys about the A-team going to England, Walton is needed in the Caribbean and i hope the selectors show some common sense and select him this time.

 

[roseboy64]

Walton is nowhere near needed.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Walton is nowhere near needed.

If you honestly believe that then i have to wonder if you've been watching Ramdin play for the past year!! .

 

[Beamer]

Walton is nowhere near needed.

Can you please explain what you would do about our wicket keeping crisis, particularly in Limited Overs cricket?

 

[shivfan]

Oh yes, Thomas is Leewards, not Windwards....

The Windwards had that merry-go-round between James and Fletcher.

The question is, how fit is Thomas, since no domestic cricket is currently being played? I would've liked to see him in the A team before touting him as a replacement for Ramdin. I think Walton is now in pole position, but I would still like to see him play in England before contemplating him as a replacement for Ramdin in Tests. Why? Because that England experience is far more important to me than playing three relatively unimportant ODIs against South Africa....

As for ODIs, these three upcoming matches are fairly unimportant, so I would even support the idea of giving Simmons a chance with the gloves!

Interestingly, Windie, you do notice that roseboy is advocating retaining Ramdin over Walton, and that while Ramdin is Trini, Walton is Jamaican....

 

[shivfan]

Interestingly, the injuries to Sarwan and Miller are likely to rule them out of the first Test....

TrinidadExpress

The good news is that both Shiv and Roach should be fit again. HOpefully, we won't get any more injuries in the three remaining ODIs....

So, this looks like a possible XI for the first Test....

1) Chris Gayle
2) Adrian Barath (he is fit, isn't he?)
3) Travis Dowlin (?)
4) Shiv Chanderpaul
5) Brendan Nash
6) Narsing Deonarine
7) Dwayne Bravo
8) Denesh Ramdin
9) Jerome Taylor
10) Suleimann Benn
11) Kemar Roach

Or, if we go for the extra bowler....

1) Chris Gayle
2) Adrian Barath
3) Dwayne Bravo (why not?)
4) Shiv Chanderpaul
5) Brendan Nash
6) Narsing Deonarine
7) Denesh Ramdin
8) Jerome Taylor
9) Suleimann Benn
10) Ravi Rampaul/Darren Sammy/Shane Shillingford
11) Kemar Roach

I have more confidence in the top team, than I do in the bottom team....

 

[roseboy64]

If you honestly believe that then i have to wonder if you've been watching Ramdin play for the past year!! .

Can you please explain what you would do about our wicket keeping crisis, particularly in Limited Overs cricket?

There's no guarantee he'll do anything good and his international record to date is less than impressive. Needs to go to England and prove his worth against someone other than Bangladesh A.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Oh yes, Thomas is Leewards, not Windwards....

The Windwards had that merry-go-round between James and Fletcher.

The question is, how fit is Thomas, since no domestic cricket is currently being played? I would've liked to see him in the A team before touting him as a replacement for Ramdin. I think Walton is now in pole position, but I would still like to see him play in England before contemplating him as a replacement for Ramdin in Tests. Why? Because that England experience is far more important to me than playing three relatively unimportant ODIs against South Africa....

As for ODIs, these three upcoming matches are fairly unimportant, so I would even support the idea of giving Simmons a chance with the gloves!

Interestingly, Windie, you do notice that roseboy is advocating retaining Ramdin over Walton, and that while Ramdin is Trini, Walton is Jamaican....

It's funny how you're asking questions about Thomas's fitness but have no hesitation about picking Barath in your test team even though he's hardly played any cricket lately either!! , Walton has proven himself just as much as Darren Bravo and Shillingford has for the A-team so why shouldn't he be considered for the Tests like them two are? you can't be scared of change Mike!!!, Ramdin is clearly lacking in confidence and if we want to win this Test series we'll need players who are in good form.

As for your last comment, Walton has never played for Jamaica, so maybe the "connection" isn't quite there!! .

 

[WindieWeathers]

There's no guarantee he'll do anything good and his international record to date is less than impressive. Needs to go to England and prove his worth against someone other than Bangladesh A.

It's not like he's played a ton of games for West Indies has he? he only played against Bangladesh and he done very well with the gloves as i mentioned before, since then his batting has clearly improved, and didn't he also do well against South Africa A too? so it's not like he's some kind of "flat track bully".

 

[WindieWeathers]

Interestingly, the injuries to Sarwan and Miller are likely to rule them out of the first Test....

TrinidadExpress

The good news is that both Shiv and Roach should be fit again. HOpefully, we won't get any more injuries in the three remaining ODIs....

So, this looks like a possible XI for the first Test....

1) Chris Gayle
2) Adrian Barath (he is fit, isn't he?)
3) Travis Dowlin (?)
4) Shiv Chanderpaul
5) Brendan Nash
6) Narsing Deonarine
7) Dwayne Bravo
8) Denesh Ramdin
9) Jerome Taylor
10) Suleimann Benn
11) Kemar Roach

Or, if we go for the extra bowler....

1) Chris Gayle
2) Adrian Barath
3) Dwayne Bravo (why not?)
4) Shiv Chanderpaul
5) Brendan Nash
6) Narsing Deonarine
7) Denesh Ramdin
8) Jerome Taylor
9) Suleimann Benn
10) Ravi Rampaul/Darren Sammy/Shane Shillingford
11) Kemar Roach

I have more confidence in the top team, than I do in the bottom team....

Now you're reverting to type again by including Dowlin?!! that's crazy stuff Mike, until we actually know the Test squad i don't think there's any point trying to guess, i'm hoping Sarwan can be back to be honest, and if Nelon Pascal doesn't get a chance i think we might have to consider two spinners, India killed South Africa with spin recently, and i still believe the WicketKeeper position remains up for grabs.

 

[shivfan]

I agree with roseboy that a tour of England will be a truer test of Walton's abilities....

With regards to Barath, you might've noticed that the Jamaica leg of the tour (final ODI, warmup game, and first Test) have all been shifted to Trinidad. If Barath doesn't play in the warmup game, then I doubt he'll play in the first Test, in which case I would think that Dowlin is likely to open the batting with Gayle. That is probably why he's captaining the A team side in Bangladesh, but is not going to England.

Here's the squad for the third and fourth ODIs....

West Indies: Chris Gayle (capt), Dwayne Bravo (vice-capt), Sulieman Benn, David Bernard, Darren Bravo, Shivnarine Chanderpaul, Narsingh Deonarine, Kieron Pollard, Denesh Ramdin (wk), Ravi Rampaul, Dale Richards, Darren Sammy, Jerome Taylor

So, it's pretty obvious that the selectors are sticking with Ramdin for now....

 

[shivfan]

I'm sure Darren Bravo will play in the ODI, and but will he play in the first Test? That's the question. And if so, who would he replace? I only see him playing if there are injuries to both Barath and Sarwan. with Barath's fitness a doubt, I'm sure Dowlin will be first choice to replace him as an opener. We need to look first at how the batsmen performed for the A team in Bangladesh....

 

[WindieWeathers]

Yeah they're sticking with Ramdin but surely if his bad form continues he has to be dropped again? as for Darren Bravo, the kid is coming into his own now, as you know i'm a fan of Deonarine but his form of late hasn't been impressive so he might be the one to sit out to be honest, i guess well see, Dwayne is showing his form with the bat now so at least that's a good sign, and many are wondering if Sammy will make it for the Tests too? Gibbo has some big decisions to make that's for sure.

 

[shivfan]

Yeah they're sticking with Ramdin but surely if his bad form continues he has to be dropped again? as for Darren Bravo, the kid is coming into his own now, as you know i'm a fan of Deonarine but his form of late hasn't been impressive so he might be the one to sit out to be honest, i guess well see, Dwayne is showing his form with the bat now so at least that's a good sign, and many are wondering if Sammy will make it for the Tests too? Gibbo has some big decisions to make that's for sure.

I assume you're talking about the Tests, because to me, that's far more important than a relatively meaningless five-match ODI series. I believe these three ODIs should be used to get some of the guys into some form for the upcoming Test series. For example, who really cares that WI lost the ODI series to England in the Caribbean last year? The important thing is that we won the Test series....

1) Ramdin: given that Walton hasn't been withdrawn from the tour to England, it seems fairly certain that Ramdin's keeping the gloves for the Tests against South Africa. However, if he fails to make runs, and Walton makes runs in England, then I'm sure some changes will be made behind the stumps. Crucially though, Walton will have to ensure that his glovework is at least as good as Ramdin's. As we've seen in the recent past, keepers brought in to replace Ramdin have been shown up to be far inferior to Ramdin behind the stumps - Fletcher and Baugh spring to mind.

2) Darren Bravo: barring injury concerns to both Barath and Sarwan, I see Lil Bravo going on the tour of England after the ODIs. I hope he does go, because he could learn a lot from batting in English conditions. It would be a shame if he was pulled from that tour to play a Test series against South Africa that we would probably lose anyway, especially if Sarwan and Barath are both injured.

3) Dwayne Bravo: that innings of 72 in the last ODI was timely, but as we've seen in the past, Big Bravo usually follows up a decent score with a string of poor innings. He needs to be a lot more consistent than he currently is to deserve a batting spot.

4) Deonarine: it's a bit unfair to judge his ability as a Test batsman on his ODI form. His last Test innings was a good one, and that's what I believe he should be judged on, when the time comes around for selection to the Test side.

5) Dowlin: his Test batting average is still a good one, so I would support his selection over Devon Smith as Gayle's opening partner, if Barath is not fit. He deserves another chance in the Test arena.

6) Sammy: while he has shown that he's a good ODI and 20/20 player, he doesn't seem to have the game to make it in the Test arena. He has been tried before, but he hasn't been able to quite replicate the achievements of his Test debut. His bowling is best suited to English conditions. However, on Caribbean pitches, his bowling lacks penetration, which is so very important in Test cricket. And his batting is not good enough for him to be selected as a batting allrounder. I see him as a fixture in the ODI side who's not quite good enough for the Test side, like Kieron Pollard.