Good/Great bowlers that owned good/great batsman...

[satyam]

Anil kumble also had a fair amount of success against lara. That explains lara's poor record against India

 

[Burgey]

In ODIs as far as I remember it was perfectly even stevens between Tendulkar and McGrath

Except when it mattered most..

 

[satyam]

Except when it mattered most..

And what is your definition of mattered most .

 

[honestbharani]

Anil kumble also had a fair amount of success against lara. That explains lara's poor record against India

Lara played very little against India. That explains his record more than anything else, AFAIC... And I never saw Lara actually struggle against ANY Indian bowler for any real period of time in whatever matches he did play against us. Saying Kumble troubled Lara would be like saying McGrath owned Sachin...

 

[satyam]

Lara played very little against India. That explains his record more than anything else, AFAIC... And I never saw Lara actually struggle against ANY Indian bowler for any real period of time in whatever matches he did play against us. Saying Kumble troubled Lara would be like saying McGrath owned Sachin...

Lara played 17 test match against India. If you consider 17 test little you are joking. Lara was never comfortable against kumble

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

 

[honestbharani]

17 over 20 years is less.. He played a 3 test series way back in 93/94, then a 5 test one against us at home in 97, another one in 2002 when he was carrying a chipped elbow and cut not play the cut, pull or the lofted shots and another one at home as captain 2006... And BTW, exactly how many times did Kumble dismiss him there?

 

[satyam]

17 over 20 years is less.. He played a 3 test series way back in 93/94, then a 5 test one against us at home in 97, another one in 2002 when he was carrying a chipped elbow and cut not play the cut, pull or the lofted shots and another one at home as captain 2006... And BTW, exactly how many times did Kumble dismiss him there?

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

See only few WI players have played against India than lara.

Stop giving execuses. Tendulkar destroyed Mcgrath many times as i have given the list. Lara was never comfortable against kumble. Why does he average 34 against India in test as well as ODI. India doesn't have a mighty bowling line up. Kumble dismissed lara 5 times

 

[honestbharani]

yeah 5 times in 14 tests.. was a mighty struggle indeed. And for the answer, Kumble himself told Lara was the player he feared most when bowling to.... Tendulkar destroyed McGrath in Australia? He did destroy him in India on a couple of occasions but so did Lara against Kumble, even in the game at Chennai which was his second last appearance in India in an ODI, Kumble could not get a single ball past Lara...


Lara's record against India is no worse than Sachin's record against RSA in RSA... So RSA bowlers owned Sachin?

 

[satyam]

Tendulkar destroyed Mcgrath 8 times not a couple of times. And yes tendulkar was man of the series in Australia .

And regarding Tendulkar record in SA , why don't you check lara's record against SA against pollock . It is comparable to sachin

Lara had a average of 32 in ODI against India and you say lara destroyed kumble..

 

[satyam]

Here we go. Check the record of sachin and lara against SA(with pollock).

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

I don't think there is huge gap in batting avg.

 

[honestbharani]

Here we go. Check the record of sachin and lara against SA(with pollock).

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

I don't think there is huge gap in batting avg.

no, I meant averaging 35 against a team when you have played them so less in your career and at times with injuries, is not being ordinary or mediocre.... It is one of those things that happen over people's careers.


FWIW, I don't think Sachin particularly "struggled" against RSA in RSA... So terms like "found out", "struggled" and "owned" are a bit far fetched between great players... Except of course Warne/Murali against Sachin/Lara.. Most times, between great players, the contests are even as you would expect them to be... And that is the case with McGrath/Sachin and Kumble/Lara.. If you want owning, watch McGrath Vs Atherton..

 

[satyam]

Now if we include both allan donald and shaun pollock, then here we get another interesting stat..

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Tendulkar despite having poor record against SA betters lara.

 

[honestbharani]

Tendulkar destroyed Mcgrath 8 times not a couple of times. And yes tendulkar was man of the series in Australia .

And regarding Tendulkar record in SA , why don't you check lara's record against SA against pollock . It is comparable to sachin

Lara had a average of 32 in ODI against India and you say lara destroyed kumble..

I meant one match.. did you even watch it? And where exactly did Lara "struggle" against Kumble?

 

[satyam]

no, I meant averaging 35 against a team when you have played them so less in your career and at times with injuries, is not being ordinary or mediocre.... It is one of those things that happen over people's careers.


FWIW, I don't think Sachin particularly "struggled" against RSA in RSA... So terms like "found out", "struggled" and "owned" are a bit far fetched between great players... Except of course Warne/Murali against Sachin/Lara.. Most times, between great players, the contests are even as you would expect them to be... And that is the case with McGrath/Sachin and Kumble/Lara.. If you want owning, watch McGrath Vs Atherton..

Agreed completely

 

[honestbharani]

Now if we include both allan donald and shaun pollock, then here we get another interesting stat..

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Tendulkar despite having poor record against SA betters lara.

u want this to be turned into Lara Vs Sachin, I suggest search that thread title and post there. I have made my point that Lara never really "struggled" against Kumble/India and to illustrate that, I brought up Sachin Vs RSA in RSA because it is another instance when stats seem to tell he struggled but I don't think he did at all...

 

[Avada Kedavra]

yeah 5 times in 14 tests.. was a mighty struggle indeed. And for the answer, Kumble himself told Lara was the player he feared most when bowling to.... Tendulkar destroyed McGrath in Australia? He did destroy him in India on a couple of occasions but so did Lara against Kumble, even in the game at Chennai which was his second last appearance in India in an ODI, Kumble could not get a single ball past Lara...


Lara's record against India is no worse than Sachin's record against RSA in RSA... So RSA bowlers owned Sachin?

Not true. Lara's record in India - 198 runs @ 33
Sachin's record in South Africa - 835 runs @ 39.76 (which really is 40) with 3 centuries. And Tendulkar averaged 38 against Donald/Pollock while Lara averaged 33.

In fact Tendulkar's near 40 average in SA is no worse than Lara's 41 odd in Australia. So Australia owned Lara?

 

[satyam]

u want this to be turned into Lara Vs Sachin, I suggest search that thread title and post there. I have made my point that Lara never really "struggled" against Kumble/India and to illustrate that, I brought up Sachin Vs RSA in RSA because it is another instance when stats seem to tell he struggled but I don't think he did at all...

Agreed. I was just saying Tendulkar was not owned by Mcgrath as few aussie posters suggested

 

[0RI0N]

And what is your definition of mattered most .

Burgey might be talking about
the last time sachin faced McGrath in a ODI IN South Africa.
Seeing as you are a Guru with stats satyam, why don't you check Statsguru and see what happend that day.

 

[honestbharani]

Agreed. I was just saying Tendulkar was not owned by Mcgrath as few aussie posters suggested

nah.. he was never owned. At best you can say they had the upper hand because these guys averaged less than their career average but these things have to be taken with a pinch of salt.


Speaking to players, you will always get a good idea of who is the better player and who isn't. It is not for nothing that blokes like Warne rate Sachin and Lara well ahead of the next best batsmen they have seen...

 

[asty80]

Chaminda Vaas -> Ganguly

And it continues in the IPL