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Richards v Tendulkar - ODIs

Who is the best ODI batsman of all time?

  • Total voters
    92
SJS

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
FC De Saram - 2

MCC invited him that winter to tour the West Indies as a member of the MCC ream but he had to reluctantly decline due to pressure of looming exams.

He played for Hertfordshire in the minor counties and scored over 900 runs at an average over 90 per innings and a top score of 187.

Playing against the visiting Indians in 1936 for the Minor Counties he faced a formidabe attack of Mohammad Nissar, Amar Singh, Lala Amarnath, Ck Nayudu, Shute Bannerjee and CS Nayudu and scored 86 - the only batsman to reach the half century mark.

Back home he played in the semi-finals of the Pentangular in India in 1937-38 for the Rest against the Muslims. He was the top scorer for his side with innings of 50 and 122 not out in a low scoring match which the Rest lost.

Then came the war. By the time it ended, Derrick was in his mid 30's.

In 1948-49 Pakistan came to tour Ceylon. Derrick now approaching 40 scored a brilliant 118 against a Pakistani attack that included Fazal Mehmood and Khan Mohammad.

In 1953-54 Pakistan sent another side to Ceylon - The Pakistan Combined Services. In the only first class match of the tour, they met a Ceylon side on 31st December 1953. De Saram was approaching his 42nd birthday. Against an attack that included Pakistan's Test bowlers AH Kardar, Shujauddin and Ghazali, Ceylon lost five top order batsmen for 17. 2. 5. 10 and 8. De Saram who was standing at one end watching the wickets fall then had the unknown debutante Brian Cleeson join him. Cleeson scored 71 before falling. The rest were as bad as those who had come before.

FC De Saram scored 148. That was the last time he was seen in a first class game.
 
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SJS

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
FC De Saram - 3

Besides being an obviously gifted cricketer, Derrick was an accomplished lawyer and headed his family law firm, one of the leading law firms of Sri Lanka.

He was also a Colonel in the army and had once plotted a coup against Srimavo Bandarnaike (the wife of his cousin and former Prime Minister Solomon Bandarnaike). The coup was foiled, De Saram confessed taking full responsibility and was sentenced to 10 years in jail. The sentence was later overturned on technicalities.

He continued to coach the Royal College rugby and cricket teams almost till his death in 1983.

Both his daughters were national level sports persons in Tennis and swimming as was his grandson who was Captain of the Sri Lankan swimming team.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
SJS said:
No one :)

Zimbabwe shocked the world by defeating Australia in their opening match. Duncan Fletcher top scored for them with 69 not out in his teams score of 239 for six.

Fletcher wasn't dome yet.

When Australia batted he took four for 42 bowling fast medium stuff to earn a 13 run win for his side as Australia failed to reach the target in their 60 overs.

I think it remains the finest all round performance by a player from Zimbabwe in the World Cup till date.
Click to expand...
probably got that mixed up wtih Glen Turner... He did get a big hundred right, though not sure if it was against Australia.. Sorry. :)
 
Lillian Thomson

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
SJS said:
There is absolutely no comparison between Sri Lanka (even in their years before they became known as Sri Lanka) and Bangladesh. They were a far better side. If Bangladesh can get Test status, Sri Lanka (then Ceylon) should have got it at least in 1965 when they became ICC's associate members.
Click to expand...
Which is more or less what I said - but when SJS speaks the World listens.
 
Migara

Migara

International Coach
Thanks SJS. Knew Saram was an average test class cricketer, but now only realized he was bit better than average. You may be ahve plenty to say about Sathasivam as well.
 
nick-o

nick-o

State 12th Man
I’m not a stats person, although they appeal to me greatly. When discussing cricketers, my reaction is based on how they looked to me at the time, rather than what the stats say, and I know my gut says that Richards was better than Tendulkar.

But I wanted to see if the stats bear out that impression. I wanted a measure of quality and also sustained quality, not a flash in the pan good season but something that lasts.

So I decided to research their records over 10-year periods, trying to see what the peak was and how they compared to the next-best during each period.

The following list shows the ODI batting average for each 10-year period starting with the decade 1975-84, and moving forward a year at a time. Qualification is 50 matches, which eliminates almost all statistical freaks (in a few cases, a stellar start or a spectacular finish to a career registers, but most anomalies are eliminated.)

The list shows the top batsman for the relevant 10-year period and the second placed, with their respective averages. I don’t believe in cherry picking, so these stats are against all-comers.

What the figures suggest to me is that the list of top ODI batsmen is surprisingly small. A select few have been dominant within their own era; a slightly larger group have challenged that dominance, for longer or shorter periods, and to greater or lesser success.

I would suggest that Tendulkar is the leader of that second group, the challengers, whereas Richards is firmly in the first group, but losing out to Bevan. The batsman Tendulkar most closely resembles, it seems to me, is Greenidge, not Richards.


75-84 54.74 Richards 49.69 Zaheer
76-85 58.02 Richards 49.69 Greenidge
77-86 53.79 Richards 47.69 Zaheer
78-87 53.34 Richards 48.63 Greenidge
79-88 50.84 Richards 50.41 Greenidge
80-89 47.78 Greenidge 46.29 Gooch
81-90 50.21 DM Jones 47.32 Gooch
82-91 48.85 DM Jones 48.00 Gooch
83-92 47.42 DM Jones 45.60 Richards
84-93 45.89 DM Jones 43.70 Haynes
85-94 45.59 DM Jones 45.44 Gavaskar
86-95 45.79 DM Jones 44.07 Lara
87-96 47.54 G Kirsten 46.20 DM Jones
88-97 54.43 MG Bevan 46.38 Lara
89-98 58.29 MG Bevan 46.90 Lara
90-99 60.33 MG Bevan 46.43 Klusener
91-00 56.50 MG Bevan 45.20 Ganguly
92-01 57.27 MG Bevan 45.29 Tendulkar
93-02 54.67 MG Bevan 46.29 Tendulkar
94-03 55.74 MG Bevan 48.48 Tendulkar
95-04 53.55 MG Bevan 47.89 Tendulkar
96-05 52.77 MG Bevan 46.91 Tendulkar
97-06 53.58 MG Bevan 45.82 Tendulkar
98-07 57.34 MK Hussey 53.23 MG Bevan
99-08 57.13 MK Hussey 50.50 MG Bevan
00-09 54.07 MK Hussey 50.82 Dhoni
 
Sir Alex

Sir Alex

Banned
nick-o said:
I’m not a stats person, although they appeal to me greatly. When discussing cricketers, my reaction is based on how they looked to me at the time, rather than what the stats say, and I know my gut says that Richards was better than Tendulkar.

But I wanted to see if the stats bear out that impression. I wanted a measure of quality and also sustained quality, not a flash in the pan good season but something that lasts.

So I decided to research their records over 10-year periods, trying to see what the peak was and how they compared to the next-best during each period.

The following list shows the ODI batting average for each 10-year period starting with the decade 1975-84, and moving forward a year at a time. Qualification is 50 matches, which eliminates almost all statistical freaks (in a few cases, a stellar start or a spectacular finish to a career registers, but most anomalies are eliminated.)

The list shows the top batsman for the relevant 10-year period and the second placed, with their respective averages. I don’t believe in cherry picking, so these stats are against all-comers.

What the figures suggest to me is that the list of top ODI batsmen is surprisingly small. A select few have been dominant within their own era; a slightly larger group have challenged that dominance, for longer or shorter periods, and to greater or lesser success.

I would suggest that Tendulkar is the leader of that second group, the challengers, whereas Richards is firmly in the first group, but losing out to Bevan. The batsman Tendulkar most closely resembles, it seems to me, is Greenidge, not Richards.


75-84 54.74 Richards 49.69 Zaheer
76-85 58.02 Richards 49.69 Greenidge
77-86 53.79 Richards 47.69 Zaheer
78-87 53.34 Richards 48.63 Greenidge
79-88 50.84 Richards 50.41 Greenidge
80-89 47.78 Greenidge 46.29 Gooch
81-90 50.21 DM Jones 47.32 Gooch
82-91 48.85 DM Jones 48.00 Gooch
83-92 47.42 DM Jones 45.60 Richards
84-93 45.89 DM Jones 43.70 Haynes
85-94 45.59 DM Jones 45.44 Gavaskar
86-95 45.79 DM Jones 44.07 Lara
87-96 47.54 G Kirsten 46.20 DM Jones
88-97 54.43 MG Bevan 46.38 Lara
89-98 58.29 MG Bevan 46.90 Lara
90-99 60.33 MG Bevan 46.43 Klusener
91-00 56.50 MG Bevan 45.20 Ganguly
92-01 57.27 MG Bevan 45.29 Tendulkar
93-02 54.67 MG Bevan 46.29 Tendulkar
94-03 55.74 MG Bevan 48.48 Tendulkar
95-04 53.55 MG Bevan 47.89 Tendulkar
96-05 52.77 MG Bevan 46.91 Tendulkar
97-06 53.58 MG Bevan 45.82 Tendulkar
98-07 57.34 MK Hussey 53.23 MG Bevan
99-08 57.13 MK Hussey 50.50 MG Bevan
00-09 54.07 MK Hussey 50.82 Dhoni
Click to expand...
Thanks for the effort, but the endeavour of comparing middle order bat with an opener, whose roles are as different as it can get in ODIs, makes it a bit futile in my opinion.
 
nick-o

nick-o

State 12th Man
Sir Alex said:
Thanks for the effort, but the endeavour of comparing middle order bat with an opener, whose roles are as different as it can get in ODIs, makes it a bit futile in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but doesn't that negate the entire thread?
 
Sir Alex

Sir Alex

Banned
nick-o said:
Sorry, but doesn't that negate the entire thread?
Click to expand...
Yes, quite frankly it is a pointless exercise imho. While Dhoni, Hussey etc all have emulated Bevan's record to some extent in the middle order, am not sure there are many who have replicated Tendulkar's success opening the batting in ODIs. Certainly not across 300+ ODIs anyway!
 
Sir Alex

Sir Alex

Banned
Well let me bring in my beloved superaverage into this.

super avg = Batting avg X SR

With a qualification of minimum 2000 runs, the best openers EVER in ODI cricket are as below:

Code: 
[B]Nos	Player  		Mat  	Runs  	 Ave   	 SR   	 SuperAvg[/B] 
1	SR Tendulkar (India) 	323	14482	 48.92 	 88.19 	 43.14 
2	V Sehwag (India) 	184	6336	 35.79 	 103.86  37.17 
3	AC Gilchrist (Aus/ICC) 	260	9200	 36.50 	 98.02 	 35.78 
4	CH Gayle (ICC/WI) 	197	7509	 41.94 	 84.36 	 35.38 
5	ML Hayden (Aus) 	148	5892	 44.30 	 78.70 	 34.86 
6	BC Lara (WI) 		52	2166	 46.08 	 74.71 	 34.43 
7	GC Smith (Afr/SA) 	148	5598	 40.86 	 83.26 	 34.02 
8	ME Waugh (Aus) 		141	5729	 44.06 	 76.74 	 33.81 
9	ST Jayasuriya (SL) 	387	12738	 34.70 	 92.51 	 32.10 
10	Saeed Anwar (Pak) 	220	8156	 39.98 	 79.93 	 31.96 
11	ME Trescothick (Eng) 	123	4335	 37.37 	 85.21 	 31.84 
12	BB McCullum (NZ) 	68	2070	 33.93 	 90.55 	 30.72 
13	SC Ganguly (India) 	242	9146	 41.57 	 73.59 	 30.59 
14	S Chanderpaul (WI) 	74	2813	 43.27 	 69.81 	 30.21 
15	G Kirsten (SA) 		175	6647	 41.80 	 72.25 	 30.20 
16	HH Gibbs (SA) 		183	6103	 35.69 	 82.86 	 29.57 
17	NV Knight (Eng) 	92	3345	 40.30 	 73.16 	 29.48 
18	CG Greenidge (WI) 	120	4993	 45.39 	 64.65 	 29.34 
19	Salman Butt (Pak) 	75	2651	 37.33 	 76.11 	 28.41 
20	NS Sidhu (India) 	63	2418	 40.30 	 68.03 	 27.42 
21	DL Haynes (WI) 		238	8648	 41.37 	 63.09 	 26.10 
22	MS Atapattu (SL) 	93	3128	 37.68 	 67.76 	 25.53 
23	NJ Astle (NZ) 		191	6176	 34.89 	 72.72 	 25.37 
24	GA Gooch (Eng) 		100	3828	 40.29 	 62.12 	 25.03 
25	Shahid Afridi (Pak) 	145	3543	 24.60 	 101.66  25.01
A difference of 14% between him and his nearest competitor and something which looks highly unlikely to be bettered, Tendulkar leads the list by a long long way.
 
Shri

Shri

Mr. Glass
Well let me bring in my beloved duperaverage into this.

duper avg = no. of times a batter scratches his scrotal area X no. of matches played

1. Sachin

Daylight

2. Random batter
 
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