Greatest West Indian Batsman

[weldone]

Can anyone suggest if there is any recorded clip of headley's batting? i guess no...

In such case, some pictures that can give an idea about his batting technique?...1 or 2 pictures won't give a good idea I feel...a series of pictures, maybe demostrating any particular shot?

 

[Furball]

I know it's often difficult to tell when Richard makes a joke, especially if he doesn't point it out that it was in jest in capital letters afterwards - but that just looked "tongue-in-cheek" to me.

One thing that's always bugged me about forums is when people act like moderators. It's a real pet hate of mine.

 

[fredfertang]

One thing that's always bugged me about forums is when people act like moderators. It's a real pet hate of mine.

 

[Pothas]

Quite, did raise a smile it must be said.

 

[Furball]

"when non-moderators act like moderators" would have been a better way of phrasing it.

 

[fredfertang]

"when non-moderators act like moderators" would have been a better way of phrasing it.

no no no - that lacks the touch of comic brilliance of the original - that you still managed to make the exact point you set out to make was a touch of genius

 

[Lillian Thomson]

The only time to worry is when moderators start thinking they're very important people and spam the board they're supposed to be moderating with unnecessary interventions on anything and everything.

 

[fredfertang]

The only time to worry is when moderators start thinking they're very important people and spam the board they're supposed to be moderating with unnecessary interventions on anything and everything.

..... did you have a specific example in mind?

 

[Lillian Thomson]

..... did you have a specific example in mind?

As if. Someone might recognise themselves in the description though........

 

[Furball]

no no no - that lacks the touch of comic brilliance of the original - that you still managed to make the exact point you set out to make was a touch of genius

Was deliberate.

 

[Athlai]

No, I'm Spartacus.

 

[Richard]

Richard, if there's an issue with a mod or one of their decisions, please send us an email or report the post rather than making posts like these; understand that they look a lot like you trying to tell the mods how to do the job.

Was a fairly tongue-in-cheek comment TBH, it's common knowledge that mods aren't supposed to use <ignore>. Appreciate that it could've been taken otherwise though.

 

[SJS]

Don't wish to re-hash what I said yesterday, but I honestly cannot recall a top class batsman so still until point of delivery as Sobers is in that clip. It may have been more common in his time, but these days most top layers will move slightly at least before the ball is bowled.

At least, that's how it seems to me anyways. Anyone got any thoughts on whether this is strictly a modern phenomenon or whether Sobers was unusual even for his time in this regard?

I was searching for an earlier post when I bumped into this delightful thread and read through the entire discussion which was such a pleasure. However, I also noticed that having gone off the thread because I thought, wrongly perhaps, that it was a waste of time writing any more, I think this question you asked remained unanswered - and it is an absolutely vital one to understand Sobers' batting.

I had mentioned it in the thread on Cricketers who have had a lasting impact on how the game is played.

Most batsmen who have an all round aggression by which I mean who will be aggresive towards, pace and spin alike, tend to cut, pull and hook marvellously and jump out to spinners to make good length a bit of a myth. Bradman is the epitome and the greatest example of such aggressive batting.

Sobers is the only, as far as I can think, great aggressive batsman in history who made a mockery of good length but never jumped out of the crease (or almost never).

Although it cant be said to have left a lasting impact on the game (in fact it is so rarely commented upon as to be not known amongst cricket fans today) but Sobers showed an amazing new type of aggresive batting.

Most batsmen who have an all round aggression by which I mean who will be aggresive towards, pace and spin alike, tend to cut, pull and hook marvellously and jump out to spinners to make good length a bit of a myth. Bradman is the epitome and the greatest example of such aggressive batting.

Sobers is the only, as far as I can think, great aggressive batsman in history who made a mockery of good length but never jumped out of the crease (or almost never).

Where as other great aggressive batsmen have, and still do, gone out to convert the good length ball into a half volley, Sobers went back and converted it into a short enough length to be driven of the backfoot with power and without risk. He wasn't doing it with the primary purpose of cutting down risk but because he was such a fantastic backfoot driver that he just found it so much more convenient and playing the ball so late gave him much better control over what he was doing.

I think in the famous innings of 256 against Lillee there is at least one shot where he drives even the faster bowler off the backfoot off a ball that isn't short and to which many batsmen would have gone forward in defense.

The only way he could bat like that was to do what you say, to stand still till the last possible movement then with one decisive, and lightning quick, movement of feet and bat dispatch the ball of the front foot or back from a position of rock-solidly-grounded-feet. This style could not have worked without being absolutely certain of the line and length of the ball (to make sure which was the spot in all its three dimensions) where the ball would have to be met. This certainty, in turn, could not be had without waiting till the last moment possible to assess the speed, line and height at which the ball would come. And this waiting till the last possible nano-second was possible only by being absolutely still till then with eyes and mind transfixed at that 5 1/4 inch red orb.

 

[vcs]

I think Sehwag has a similar approach in some ways.

 

[shivfan]

Lara, Richards, Sobers, Headley - four real greats, from which it's hard to choose....

 

[archie mac]

I was searching for an earlier post when I bumped into this delightful thread and read through the entire discussion which was such a pleasure. However, I also noticed that having gone off the thread because I thought, wrongly perhaps, that it was a waste of time writing any more, I think this question you asked remained unanswered - and it is an absolutely vital one to understand Sobers' batting.

I had mentioned it in the thread on Cricketers who have had a lasting impact on how the game is played.

Most batsmen who have an all round aggression by which I mean who will be aggresive towards, pace and spin alike, tend to cut, pull and hook marvellously and jump out to spinners to make good length a bit of a myth. Bradman is the epitome and the greatest example of such aggressive batting.

Sobers is the only, as far as I can think, great aggressive batsman in history who made a mockery of good length but never jumped out of the crease (or almost never).



The only way he could bat like that was to do what you say, to stand still till the last possible movement then with one decisive, and lightning quick, movement of feet and bat dispatch the ball of the front foot or back from a position of rock-solidly-grounded-feet. This style could not have worked without being absolutely certain of the line and length of the ball (to make sure which was the spot in all its three dimensions) where the ball would have to be met. This certainty, in turn, could not be had without waiting till the last moment possible to assess the speed, line and height at which the ball would come. And this waiting till the last possible nano-second was possible only by being absolutely still till then with eyes and mind transfixed at that 5 1/4 inch red orb.

Good post. In his auto bio he said he was stumped once when a youngster, and decided he did not enjoy the experience, and from then on decided he would not leave the crease

 

[vic_orthdox]

Steve Waugh is a batsman who, as far as I remember, always seemed to be more comfortable in his crease, and was as good a modern example of playing relatively full balls for boundaries off the back foot.

He certainly wasn't as good to watch as Sobers, nor would he necessarily be termed as an "aggressive batsman", although this was something that was prevalent in a lot of his batting in the early, less successful parts of his career where he was more expansive. He always preferred the back foot, and indeed even his front foot shots would rarely see him get his front foot well beyond the crease.

 

[vcs]

Steve Waugh certainly had the trigger movement from what I can remember though. It was very noticeable while watching him.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Yeah, he had a big back and across movement. SJS made reference to two aspects of Sobers' batting; what Burgey talked about with regards to stillness, and Sobers' backfoot preference.

Most batsmen who have an all round aggression by which I mean who will be aggresive towards, pace and spin alike, tend to cut, pull and hook marvellously and jump out to spinners to make good length a bit of a myth. Bradman is the epitome and the greatest example of such aggressive batting.

Sobers is the only, as far as I can think, great aggressive batsman in history who made a mockery of good length but never jumped out of the crease (or almost never).

Where as other great aggressive batsmen have, and still do, gone out to convert the good length ball into a half volley, Sobers went back and converted it into a short enough length to be driven of the backfoot with power and without risk. He wasn't doing it with the primary purpose of cutting down risk but because he was such a fantastic backfoot driver that he just found it so much more convenient and playing the ball so late gave him much better control over what he was doing.

EDIT: Steve Waugh also had a very strong bottom hand throughout, which is why he tended to play those punch-drives off the back foot, rather than the long flowing drives of Sobers where the bat would end up touching him on the back.

 

[Burgey]

As a side-note - this page is a delight imo. SJS and Archie Mac both back with a bang..

Long may it be so