Richards v Tendulkar - ODIs

[NYLove78]

When you discuss different ages, there are both positives and negatives. The most common one used every time. Sachin played during the time when ODI's were dime a dozen. That does take a lot out of the body. I have grown up watching Sachin bat and will always hold him as the best I have seen.

Also making a debut at 16 and playing a lot of ODIs as a young kid batting late in the order his numbers are affected too.

Go back to Page 35 and see SRT's impressive figures against the non-minnows from 21 Sep 1994 onwards (from when he got his first century as a opener).

 

[vcs]

Some people are incapable of making their points without bashing/attacking the character of the "opponent" of their favourite. That's why I hate these kind of comparisons. Actually, not so much the comparisons, but the childish point-scoring that the discussions descend into. You'd almost forget that we're comparing two all-time greats here.

 

[NYLove78]

So what's to say Tendulkar wouldn't have done the same?

He has faced the likes of Lee ,Akthar, Tait, Malinga ,Donald ,Akram,Younis etc.. who all were pretty quick bowlers.

Btw,Helmets were available during Viv's Time as far as i am aware.

Ha - yeah sub-standard ones were - like the ones bikers wear today. Point is regardless Viv NEVER wore them - against none - Snow, Lillee, Thomson, Imran, Hadlee, Willis, Botham, Kapil, Nawaz, Procter, Le Roux, Van Der Bijl, Pascoe, Hogg, Hurst, Prior, Gilmour, Malone, Ward, Dilley etc etc etc in tests, ODIs or Packer WSC.

Nor against his own Roberts, Holding, Marshall, Daniels, Clarke, Patterson, Garner, Croft, Alleyne, Davis, Stephenson, Gray etc etc etc in the Caribbean, English or Australian leagues.

All that being on faster, bouncier, unpredictable pitches.

Without restrictions on the bowlers.

With inferior bats.

On larger boundaries (pre-ropes) and slower outfields.

Making little money compared to what they make today.

Without a media and a fan following to hype up bashing a C-grade attack on a super-flat track as a great knock.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

So what's to say Tendulkar wouldn't have done the same?

Nothing. Just like there's nothing to say that Richards wouldn't have coped with all the pointless waffle listed in Tendulkar's favour had his circumstances dictated that he had to.

 

[Teja.]

Yeah it was a lot of pressure pocketing the $ 8 mil to $ 10 mil SRT was/is making each year - Viv and his whole team put together did not have to pocket that of money - Must have been very hard for SRT that.

Not to mention the burden of asking for tax waiver on free cars - lot of pressure that - something that Viv did not have to shoulder.

We're talking cricket let's talk cricket.

Noone is taking cheap shots at Viv's impeccable disciplinary record and his fondness for marijuana, so please refrain from taking cheap shots at Tendulkar everytime you see an opportunity.

 

[Maximus0723]

Ha - yeah sub-standard ones were - like the ones bikers wear today. Point is regardless Viv NEVER wore them - against none - Snow, Lillee, Thomson, Imran, Hadlee, Willis, Botham, Kapil, Nawaz, Procter, Le Roux, Van Der Bijl, Pascoe, Hogg, Hurst, Prior, Gilmour, Malone, Ward, Dilley etc etc etc in tests, ODIs or Packer WSC.

Nor against his own Roberts, Holding, Marshall, Daniels, Clarke, Patterson, Garner, Croft, Alleyne, Davis, Stephenson, Gray etc etc etc in the Caribbean, English or Australian leagues.

All that being on faster, bouncier, unpredictable pitches.

Without restrictions on the bowlers.

With inferior bats.

On larger boundaries (pre-ropes) and slower outfields.

Making little money compared to what they make today.

Without a media and a fan following to hype up bashing a C-grade attack on a super-flat track as a great knock.

far more games played overall=less rest, games more scrutinized, more specialized ODI players, better bowlers, being opener, better fielders, more countries, inclusion of south africa...it can go both ways mate.

 

[Pratters]

We're talking cricket let's talk cricket.

Noone is taking cheap shots at Viv's impeccable disciplinary record and his fondness for marijuana, so please refrain from taking cheap shots at Tendulkar everytime you see an opportunity.

That the car incident and the money is the only two things people can think of when taking a cheap shot at Tendulkar says a lot about his greatness. Impeccable off field discipline, behavior and demeneour.

 

[NYLove78]

And you would take nothing out of Viv's record? He averages 55 v Sri Lanka in 11 games out of his 187 and you would have to decrease Viv's average too. I didn't decrease either of the player's averages.

Viv's average stands out for being 47 in a low scoring era.

In the same vein, Tendulkar's average stands out for being 45 after so many matches.

And I rate Richards>Tendulkar in ODIs just fyi.

Against Aus/Eng/Ind/Pak/NZ Richards averages 46.72

I know you rate Richards > SRT and was not accusing you of anything. But one has to put some price on factors like the more difficult pitches, absence of restrictions on bowlers and fielders, lack of good protective gear, and more intimidatory fast bowling that were prevalent in the Richards era viz SRT's. Add to this the flat decks of the subcontinent, Sharjah, etc. And that this decade batting got still better.

I believe you have also seen the stats I had posted in my first post where I had both batsmen's figures against the best bowlers of their eras on the opposition turf.

In a recent post, I had their figures against the non-minnow teams of their eras, in WI/Aus/Eng/SA/NZ where pitches were/are less easy. Richards faced the strong teams of his era on less favorable conditions 70% of the time while SRT likewise only 26% of the time. TBH don't you think these are relevant factors?

 

[Pratters]

I don't think seeing their stats excluding minnows etc is important. The difference of 2 in their batting average is heightened because of the low scoring nature of ODI cricket in Richards' hey day. Richards TOPS for maintaining a high average when average is considered. Tendulkar does get points for maintaining an average of 45 over so many ODIs though. No one can say Richards could have done it. Tendulkar HAS done it.

 

[Cevno]

Ha - yeah sub-standard ones were - like the ones bikers wear today. Point is regardless Viv NEVER wore them - against none - Snow, Lillee, Thomson, Imran, Hadlee, Willis, Botham, Kapil, Nawaz, Procter, Le Roux, Van Der Bijl, Pascoe, Hogg, Hurst, Prior, Gilmour, Malone, Ward, Dilley etc etc etc in tests, ODIs or Packer WSC.

So Viv never wore them ,was his choice not a advantage or something.What was stopping him from wearing them?
Besides they improved later on in his career.

Anyways the ballers you mention were not quick as the ones I mentioned ,if you get my point.

 

[Cevno]

Nothing. Just like there's nothing to say that Richards wouldn't have coped with all the pointless waffle listed in Tendulkar's favour had his circumstances dictated that he had to.

It works both ways,both ways.If you get my point.

Actually that has been my argument from the start.

 

[NYLove78]

We're talking cricket let's talk cricket.

Noone is taking cheap shots at Viv's impeccable disciplinary record and his fondness for marijuana, so please refrain from taking cheap shots at Tendulkar everytime you see an opportunity.

I don't need anybody to tell me what is 'cheap' and what not. I don't know or care what is 'cheap' according to you or for your opinion.

What prompted my post was the one below and that is something contrary to what you have just stated :

Has the pressure Tendulkar had both of a billion people and playing in a way weaker team,when your wicket was the decider (for most of the career) been mentioned yet?

There was no way that had Viv been in Tendulkar's era ,and had all the media attention,fan attention ,money Tendulkar has ,that he would have been able to concentrate for so long like Tendulkar has.
Even back in his time his off field activities were a bit suspect.(Neena gupta and all)

There is very less chance, had he been in Tendulkar's shoes ,that he would have played as long as tendulkar with respect to motivation for the game, specially after so mnay injuries in this era of continous cricket.And that he would have been not distracted by oiff the field stuff with the popstar culture that has more come into the game.

 

[Cevno]

That the car incident and the money is the only two things people can think of when taking a cheap shot at Tendulkar says a lot about his greatness. Impeccable off field discipline, behavior and demeneour.

And the car incident was hardly his fault too.

It was the sponsors who wanted the tax break.

 

[NYLove78]

Anyways the ballers you mention were not quick as the ones I mentioned ,if you get my point.

 

[Uppercut]

Nothing. Just like there's nothing to say that Richards wouldn't have coped with all the pointless waffle listed in Tendulkar's favour had his circumstances dictated that he had to.

Haha yeah, this.

 

[Cevno]

:d

 

[NYLove78]

Right. Thomson at his peak was hitting the sight-screen on the full (after first bounce on the pitch) while the "quicker" guys you mentioned hit the sightscreen (after ropes came in that too) only some six bounces (after the one on the pitch).

 

[Cevno]

Right. Thomson at his peak was hitting the sight-screen on the full (after first bounce on the pitch) while the "quicker" guys you mentioned hit the sightscreen (after ropes came in that too) only some six bounces (after the one on the pitch).

I was not talking about thomson.He was quick no doubt.

But what i was talking about was the likes of botham and gilmour.

And btw,Akthar was equally quick if not quicker than Thomson.

 

[NYLove78]

And btw,Akthar was equally quick if not quicker than Thomson.

Yeah that's what I said - Thommo sent down many deliveries in the 70s that thudded into the sight-screen on the full - while Akhtar's bounced only half a dozen times before gently rolling into the SS. Biased SRT-fans'

 

[NYLove78]

I don't think seeing their stats excluding minnows etc is important. The difference of 2 in their batting average is heightened because of the low scoring nature of ODI cricket in Richards' hey day. Richards TOPS for maintaining a high average when average is considered. Tendulkar does get points for maintaining an average of 45 over so many ODIs though. No one can say Richards could have done it. Tendulkar HAS done it.

Agreed.

Coming into the realms of the 'did's and 'did not's from that of the 'could have's and the 'could not have's :- Richards did what SRT did not

Richards did average higher.

Richards did strike much better.

Richards did play on faster, bouncier, more difficult tracks (where even 200 was a good total).

Richards did that without even a helmet (unlike helmet + arm-guard + chest guard + abdomen guard etc)

Richards did so without rules favoring batsmen.

Richards did so against faster, better, more intimidatory bowling.

Richards did so with inferior equipment.

Richards did so on larger grounds with slower outfields.