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*Official* Australia in New Zealand

SJS

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
thierry henry said:
SJS, I don't follow your logic here.

Styris had been one of NZ's best ODI players (more specifically, best ODI bats) for the best part of about 6 years prior to those first 3 ODIs. To say that dropping him for failing 3 times against Bangladesh is reasonable is just crazy.

He simply should never have been dropped in the first place. Perhaps Styris is not a big name in international cricket, but I think this needs to be put in context. By NZ standards Styris was probably about the equivalent of an M Hussey for Australia (big call perhaps but imo a fair analogy in several ways). He deserved to be "undroppable" save for an extended string of failures.

Of course what makes it all much worse is he was dropped when there were no obvious replacements available.
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You may be right. I do not follow New Zealand cricket much unless they are playing India or one of the top tams like Australia or South Africa.

What I wrote is not what I have always thought but just going back TODAY over what he did since his last successful series as a batsman (England 2008) and just tried to understand what the selectors have done purely from the hindsight provided by these figures.

You could well be right :)
 
thierry henry

thierry henry

International Coach
16 tins of Spam said:
Re: Styris, I thought it was fairly well known that he's got a reputation behind the scenes for being a dick and that he's pissed off a lot of people over the course of his career.
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I've peddled this theory for the last little while, but even when it came out in the papers it seems like a lot of people didn't want to believe it. Personally I think his non-selection has been so ludicrous that there must be personal issues involved.
 
Zinzan

Zinzan

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Athlai

Athlai

Not Terrible
SJS said:
You may be right. I do not follow New Zealand cricket much unless they are playing India or one of the top tams like Australia or South Africa.

What I wrote is not what I have always thought but just going back TODAY over what he did since his last successful series as a batsman (England 2008) and just tried to understand what the selectors have done purely from the hindsight provided by these figures.

You could well be right :)
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Reckon TH is pretty spot on in the subject, has always had a good eye for Styris. Though I would definitely contribute his exclusion to the NZ cricket political scene due to him pissing a lot of people off evidently.
 
Zinzan

Zinzan

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Athlai said:
Would say that Franklin has the talent but you are right in Styris having the nerve. Franklin as Blakey has pointed out regularly shrugs his shoulders and feels down.
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Haha & you've just reminded me what I dislike most about Franklin, his damn body language.
 
Athlai

Athlai

Not Terrible
zinzan12 said:
Despite the fact the win won't get credited to Vettori's ODI captaincy record....am very surprised to see he has one of the better win/loss records of all captains..:-O

Surprised to see it's marginally ahead of both Shaun Pollock & Graeme Smith's


Records | One-Day Internationals | Individual records (captains, players, umpires) | Most matches as captain | Cricinfo.com

Haven't have to checked the details, there may have been a high proportion of wins against minnows
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Better than Vettori? Big call I know but he is certainly good.
 
WindieWeathers

WindieWeathers

International Regular
Uppercut said:
Sneaking through is still winning, and even though the West Indies were in with a shot of winning when they went off it was balanced out on Guptill's debut where New Zealand set the West Indies a huge total to chase and rain meant they never had to try.
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The fact that we are debating winning a series via duckworth just proves my point, those who watched it could see that it was even right the way through the tour and they never dominated us, it was in NZ too so the onus was on the home side.
 
thierry henry

thierry henry

International Coach
SJS said:
You may be right. I do not follow New Zealand cricket much unless they are playing India or one of the top tams like Australia or South Africa.

What I wrote is not what I have always thought but just going back TODAY over what he did since his last successful series as a batsman (England 2008) and just tried to understand what the selectors have done purely from the hindsight provided by these figures.

You could well be right :)
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If you break Styris' career down statistically you will also see that for much of his career he has averaged 36-37 with the bat, he of course started his career as a bowling all-rounder. It was a long time ago now but his failings with the bat back then still significantly drag his numbers down.

He also, rather ironically, improved with the ball when he moved up the order. There was a period of several years there (around 2002-2006 I would guess) where he was averaging high 30s with the bat and less than 30 with the ball at a decent economy rate, which made him comparable to any ODI all-rounder in the world.

Just prior to being dropped he indeed suffered a brief downturn in form with the bat. His bowling had certainly become less effective before then, although he was always a batsman first and foremost.

It needs to be remembered that averaging high 30s with an 80 strike-rate is quite outstanding by NZ standards. Ross Taylor does that and he is widely regarded as our premier batsman and future captain.

As mentioned, I think what happened (apart from the personal issues) was a perfect storm of dip in form/moving in to his 30s/retiring from tests/having a few injuries. This created an impression that Styris was "on the way out". No sensible analysis of his ODI performances could lead to the conclusion that he should have been dropped from ODIs. That's just imo of course, but on the available evidence I think it would be a completely insane conclusion.
 
Zinzan

Zinzan

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Athlai said:
Sorry Fleming is what I meant.
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Roger that...seen enough of Vettori to rate him marginally ahead of Fleming as an ODI captain, but he's still a distant behind Flem when it comes to captaining tests IMHO
 
Athlai

Athlai

Not Terrible
zinzan12 said:
Roger that...seen enough of Vettori to rate him marginally ahead of Fleming as an ODI captain, but he's still a distant behind Flem when it comes to captaining tests IMHO
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Tests I don't think its worth of comparison yet. Vettori coming up short but I'd definitely agree with you in the ODI arena that Vettori is a top captain.
 
thierry henry

thierry henry

International Coach
WindieWeathers said:
The fact that we are debating winning a series via duckworth just proves my point, those who watched it could see that it was even right the way through the tour and they never dominated us, it was in NZ too so the onus was on the home side.
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This is sort of true and sort of not.

I agree the onus was on us and I was disappointed with NZ during that tour. We didn't get the results.

However, NZ definitely always had the upper hand imo, were always ahead of the game and looked the better side.
 
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