*Official* Australia in New Zealand

[Athlai]

I don't know if my memory is failing me but wasn't the tests and t20's drawn? and i remember the Odi series being settled via duckworth lewis in the last game, so i think "domination" is a strong word to use tbh.

For those who are getting their knickers in twist and claiming i'm a "troll", understand this, yes your lot a better ODI team than WI, that's obvious right now, my view is we are the better TEST SIDE, you might not like it but that's just my opinion, no need to get upset about it.

In T20s we're very even, the Test series lost time in rain and NZ were on top, close but I think we'd have won. But thats at home mate so hardly a big point to who is best.
Nor does any decent poster think you are a troll.

 

[Zinzan]

Not to surprised I left out Styris tbh because usually I think him and Franklin are playing for the same spot along with Elliott. With Styris and Franklin bowling like they did today I really think they could take Oram's position. Though I am a HUGE Oram detractor so maybe I'm biased in that sense. He is effective and can bat but I don't think he is good enough to keep out the dream team lineup.

Styris > Franklin reasonably easily for me. I do acknowledge Franklin has talent & is a clean striker of a cricket ball , but Styris clearly beats him when it comes to holding his nerve. Have seen Styris take his team home on several occasions now, at both international & domestic level.

 

[thierry henry]

Athlai, what do you actually see in Franklin as an ODI player? What do you think he can contribute and where should he be batting?

 

[African Monkey]

White really struggled as well

Funnily enough I've noticed that a few times from White. If he doesn't come in and bludgeon it, he actually tends to be a bit slow.

I agree. He struggles to rotate the strike a lot of the time.

 

[SJS]

Styris won this game for the Kiwis but it is a bit unfair to call the selectors names for keeping him out 'for so long'. He has been in terrible form for a year and a half now and one is surprised that he did what he did today at least based on those figures.

In October 2008, he played three games against lowly Bangladesh. Here are his scores

• 4
• 0
• 12

New Zealand won the series.

He was kept out for the next two series against Windies and Australia and the first four matches against India. He did not get to bowl or bat in that last game against the Indians.

He was again out of the side for the tri-series with India and Sri Lanka( two games) that opened the next season and the entire Champions Trophy (five games).

The Kiwis were runners up.

Maybe this was a very long spell to be played in just 1 game out of 22 where he neither batted nor bowled but when he was then brought back the result wasn't encouraging.

He was played in all three games in the Pakistan series (away) and he scored...

• 5
• 9
• 14

New Zealand won the series.

He was then dropped for all three games against Bangladesh at home this month.

Kiwis whitewashed the Bengalis.

I am not so sure that Styris will be crying "unfair" himself at least based on those performances. When they included him (at the beginning of a series) they gave him a decent run despite failures but he just kept failing. More importantly, New Zealand were doing pretty well during this period without him or with him and his failures.

No he has been dealt a reasonably fair hand and of course he isn't getting younger.

PS : By the way, when he did bowl during the games mentioned above, he did pretty well. 1 for 22 in 6 overs and none for 23 in six again against Bangladesh and 3 for 23 against Pakistan in 4 overs - the only time he was bowled in that series. I don't know if the Kiwis consider him more of a batsman now than an all rounder. One would have expected him to bowl more than just 16 overs in 7 games particularly if he gets 4 for 68 in them.

 

[WindieWeathers]

From memory, I don't think "us guys" have ever won an ODI via Duckworth Lewis, incidentally.

New Zealand won an ODI against New Zealand this time last year on Duckworth Lewis. But the team that wins on Duckworth Lewis is the team that's ahead at that stage in the match, so more generally they won because they were the better team. More specifically they won because McCullum successfully unsettled Powell and Edwards and they started bowling bollocks after Gayle had given them a monster total to defend.

Well if the rain didn't come it would have been in a different story i believe, iirc we were actually in the lead when the duckworth started so to imply that they were much better than us that day is a little far fetched, they barely sneaked through in the end imo.

 

[Flem274*]

Isn't on MSN but he'd call Oram a soft ****, Watson a wanker, Johnson a chucker, Ingram a nonce and Guptill a useless bastard.

I'm converting him to Ingram.

On Ingram (Disclaimer: yes I'm the fanboy, get over it ) I wouldnt want him dropped after failing against Australia (if he does) after playing a whole five ODIs (especially when Broom and Hopkins seem to get big long runs and Franklin gets to bat at five). I have never thought ODIs are his best form and would understand if he didn't last long. What I'm worried about is ODI=test selection and he's dropped from there as well for >insert name here<, probably a Marshall twin.

Him being dropped from tests would rankle me even more considering McIntosh is still there (and improving I'll add, which shows that perseverence can improve even the crappiest player).

Watling is probably the better OD batsman, but its pretty irrelevant considering Ryder will return at some stage and Ingram/Watling will play tests only.

 

[pasag]

Isn't on MSN but he'd call Oram a soft ****, Watson a wanker, Johnson a chucker, Ingram a nonce and Guptill a useless bastard.

 

[Flem274*]

Styris won this game for the Kiwis but it is a bit unfair to call the selectors names for keeping him out 'for so long'. He has been in terrible form for a year and a half now and one is surprised that he did what he did today at least based on those figures.

In October 2008, he played three games against lowly Bangladesh. Here are his scores

• 4
• 0
• 12

New Zealand won the series.

He was kept out for the next two series against Windies and Australia and the first four matches against India. He did not get to bowl or bat in that last game against the Indians.

He was again out of the side for the tri-series with India and Sri Lanka( two games) that opened the next season and the entire Champions Trophy (five games).

The Kiwis were runners up.

Maybe this was a very long spell to be played in just 1 game out of 22 where he neither batted nor bowled but when he was then brought back the result wasn't encouraging.

He was played in all three games in the Pakistan series (away) and he scored...

• 5
• 9
• 14

New Zealand won the series.

He was then dropped for all three games against Bangladesh at home this month.

Kiwis whitewashed the Bengalis.

I am not so sure that Styris will be crying "unfair" himself at least based on those performances. When they included him (at the beginning of a series) they gave him a decent run despite failures but he just kept failing. More importantly, New Zealand were doing pretty well during this period without him or with him and his failures.

No he has been dealt a reasonably fair hand and of course he isn't getting younger.

PS : By the way, when he did bowl during the games mentioned above, he did pretty well. 1 for 22 in 6 overs and none for 23 in six again against Bangladesh and 3 for 23 against Pakistan in 4 overs - the only time he was bowled in that series. I don't know if the Kiwis consider him more of a batsman now than an all rounder. One would have expected him to bowl more than just 16 overs in 7 games particularly if he gets 4 for 68 in them.

Has been one of, if not the best, domestic limited overs batsmen this summer though. Better than others who were picked ahead of him. Many thought that because he had regathered his form he would get one more chance ahead of the likes of Gareth Hopkins.

 

[WindieWeathers]

In T20s we're very even, the Test series lost time in rain and NZ were on top, close but I think we'd have won. But thats at home mate so hardly a big point to who is best.
Nor does any decent poster think you are a troll.

I can't argue with that, cheers for the last comment sir!!

 

[duffer]

Must say the term "troll" gets thrown around a lot on CW these days. Does disservice to proper trolls and how much more subtly effective they are.

 

[Zinzan]

Styris won this game for the Kiwis but it is a bit unfair to call the selectors names for keeping him out 'for so long'. He has been in terrible form for a year and a half now and one is surprised that he did what he did today at least based on those figures.

In October 2008, he played three games against lowly Bangladesh. Here are his scores

• 4
• 0
• 12

New Zealand won the series.

He was kept out for the next two series against Windies and Australia and the first four matches against India. He did not get to bowl or bat in that last game against the Indians.

He was again out of the side for the tri-series with India and Sri Lanka( two games) that opened the next season and the entire Champions Trophy (five games).

The Kiwis were runners up.

Maybe this was a very long spell to be played in just 1 game out of 22 where he neither batted nor bowled but when he was then brought back the result wasn't encouraging.

He was played in all three games in the Pakistan series (away) and he scored...

• 5
• 9
• 14

New Zealand won the series.

He was then dropped for all three games against Bangladesh at home this month.

Kiwis whitewashed the Bengalis.

I am not so sure that Styris will be crying "unfair" himself at least based on those performances. When they included him (at the beginning of a series) they gave him a decent run despite failures but he just kept failing. More importantly, New Zealand were doing pretty well during this period without him or with him and his failures.

No he has been dealt a reasonably fair hand and of course he isn't getting younger.

PS : By the way, when he did bowl during the games mentioned above, he did pretty well. 1 for 22 in 6 overs and none for 23 in six again against Bangladesh and 3 for 23 against Pakistan in 4 overs - the only time he was bowled in that series. I don't know if the Kiwis consider him more of a batsman now than an all rounder. One would have expected him to bowl more than just 16 overs in 7 games particularly if he gets 4 for 68 in them.

This is all true, but It's been his domestic one-day & T20 form this season that's caused a number of us to be dubious about his non-selection

 

[Uppercut]

Well if the rain didn't come it would have been in a different story i believe, iirc we were actually in the lead when the duckworth started so to imply that they were much better than us that day is a little far fetched, they barely sneaked through in the end imo.

Sneaking through is still winning, and even though the West Indies were in with a shot of winning when they went off it was balanced out on Guptill's debut where New Zealand set the West Indies a huge total to chase and rain meant they never had to try.

 

[thierry henry]

Styris won this game for the Kiwis but it is a bit unfair to call the selectors names for keeping him out 'for so long'. He has been in terrible form for a year and a half now and one is surprised that he did what he did today at least based on those figures.

In October 2008, he played three games against lowly Bangladesh. Here are his scores

• 4
• 0
• 12

New Zealand won the series.

He was kept out for the next two series against Windies and Australia and the first four matches against India. He did not get to bowl or bat in that last game against the Indians.

He was again out of the side for the tri-series with India and Sri Lanka( two games) that opened the next season and the entire Champions Trophy (five games).

The Kiwis were runners up.

Maybe this was a very long spell to be played in just 1 game out of 22 where he neither batted nor bowled but when he was then brought back the result wasn't encouraging.

He was played in all three games in the Pakistan series (away) and he scored...

• 5
• 9
• 14

New Zealand won the series.

He was then dropped for all three games against Bangladesh at home this month.

Kiwis whitewashed the Bengalis.

I am not so sure that Styris will be crying "unfair" himself at least based on those performances. When they included him (at the beginning of a series) they gave him a decent run despite failures but he just kept failing. More importantly, New Zealand were doing pretty well during this period without him or with him and his failures.

No he has been dealt a reasonably fair hand and of course he isn't getting younger.

PS : By the way, when he did bowl during the games mentioned above, he did pretty well. 1 for 22 in 6 overs and none for 23 in six again against Bangladesh and 3 for 23 against Pakistan in 4 overs - the only time he was bowled in that series. I don't know if the Kiwis consider him more of a batsman now than an all rounder. One would have expected him to bowl more than just 16 overs in 7 games particularly if he gets 4 for 68 in them.

SJS, I don't follow your logic here.

Styris had been one of NZ's best ODI players (more specifically, best ODI bats) for the best part of about 6 years prior to those first 3 ODIs. To say that dropping him for failing 3 times against Bangladesh is reasonable is just crazy.

He simply should never have been dropped in the first place. Perhaps Styris is not a big name in international cricket, but I think this needs to be put in context. By NZ standards Styris was probably about the equivalent of an M Hussey for Australia (big call perhaps but imo a fair analogy in several ways). He deserved to be "undroppable" save for an extended string of failures.

Of course what makes it all much worse is he was dropped when there were no obvious replacements available.

 

[Athlai]

Styris > Franklin reasonably easily for me. I do acknowledge Franklin has talent & is a clean striker of a cricket ball , but Styris clearly beats him when it comes to holding his nerve. Have seen Styris take his team home on several occasions now, at both international & domestic level.

Would say that Franklin has the talent but you are right in Styris having the nerve. Franklin as Blakey has pointed out regularly shrugs his shoulders and feels down. I still see him an immense talent and really think he has improved in his attitude to the game. Styris should certainly bat ahead of him.

Athlai, what do you actually see in Franklin as an ODI player? What do you think he can contribute and where should he be batting?

I think he is a very handy batsman both in building an innings and in boundary hitting. An attribute he has done for Wellington many times. I also think he is an excellent 5th bowling option with a great slower ball and some good variations. I'd probably have him bat 6/7 ideally. 5 would suit him best but Elliott is the better man for the spot. Then I'd put him at 6 or 7 depending on the scenario with Vettori being the other man. Franklin is a guy who I'd see that could score a 50 (60) in one situation or 30 (20) in another.

Needs a better attitude but I think he is really trying to gain it.

 

[Howsie]

Vettori in for Franklin for the 2nd ODI with Styris moving up to five.

 

[Dick Rockett]

Re: Styris, I thought it was fairly well known that he's got a reputation behind the scenes for being a dick and that he's pissed off a lot of people over the course of his career.

 

[thierry henry]

Actually I think Styris suffered in much the same way Oram has.

A combination of retiring from tests/injury/poor form can lead to a perception of "that guy hasn't done anything in ages, he's not getting any younger and he's always injured, let's get rid of him". In reality, the player may have only had 1 or 2 failures in his chosen format, but it's very much a case of out of sight, out of mind if you combine failures with sporadic unavailability.

 

[Athlai]

Tbf, this isn't true either .

You truly are a citizen of the world.

 

[Athlai]

Vettori in for Franklin for the 2nd ODI with Styris moving up to five.

GAGFC Vettori in for Oram.