So is India safe to tour or is it just a media beat-up?

[silentstriker]

Thats not an accurate analogy. The IPL says security plans are being shared with the country boards and players concerned. An accurate analogy would be the police sharing their security plans with the schools involved and the teachers involved, but the national union ignoring all that and deciding to impose themselves anyway.

No, the difference is that the country boards won't deal with the IPL because they have no authority - it's not their tournament. They won't bear the expense nor the time to do it, and they've said as much.

The people who do have the authority - the individual players - obviously can't be expected to have expertise in analyzing security plans. So they rely on their union to analyze the plans for them, and negotiate on their behalf for security that will meet their needs. The union can't "impose" on anyone. The union arent't "forcing" anyone - that is not their power. The unions only have the power that the individual players choose to give it. They can follow or reject the unions recommendations, but they usually follow them because that's the point of having a union.

You're acting like some third party is coming in uninvited and saying how this or that should be. That party has no power except when the constituents who have a stake in this matter give it that power by asking its help.

 

[G.I.Joe]

No, the difference is that the country boards won't deal with the IPL because they have no authority - it's not their tournament. They won't bear the expense nor the time to do it, and they've said as much.

The people who do have the authority - the individual players - obviously can't be expected to have expertise in analyzing security plans. So they rely on their union to analyze the plans for them, and negotiate on their behalf for security that will meet their needs. The union can't "impose" on anyone. The union arent't "forcing" anyone - that is not their power. The unions only have the power that the individual players choose to give it. They can follow or reject the unions recommendations, but they usually follow them because that's the point of having a union.

You're acting like some third party is coming in uninvited and saying how this or that should be. That party has no power except when the constituents who have a stake in this matter give it that power by asking its help.

I'm not aware of any explicit expressions of disinterest by the country boards. Lack of authority is a specious argument. FICA has as much authority here as the French teachers union has in an American schools meet. There is nothing to differentiate the boards from the players union on that front.

 

[jeevan]

Fifteen pages of discussion over nothing?

Even Reg Dickason now apparently thinks, or has said to to Australian players, that the 313 brigade threat is not credible. From the moment I saw the journalist's wet-piece on the same terrorist - I've myself felt that there was half-a-chance that this whole thing was either a lack of diligence on the part of Syed Shahzad or even possibly his complicity in circulating a false report.

This doesn't mean either that IPL & players should relax, nor that there wont be any other meat-heads who'd get an idea from this whole fracas, while meat-head #1 either just put out one email, or was a figment of someone's imagination.

But, for the moment, it's highly possible that we've all been had.

 

[honestbharani]

Modi's stance throughout this has been pretty laudable.. He is a jerk in many things but here he has stuck to his guns.. You provide the security plans to the players and to the country boards.. Why the hell are FICA still stuck in something they really shouldn't be? Sharing the security plan with all and sundry is exactly what can cause a security issue...

 

[Bracken]

Modi's stance throughout this has been pretty laudable.. He is a jerk in many things but here he has stuck to his guns.. You provide the security plans to the players and to the country boards.. Why the hell are FICA still stuck in something they really shouldn't be? Sharing the security plan with all and sundry is exactly what can cause a security issue...

FICA represents the players at the players behest.

FICA should make representations on the players' behalf because that is what, through the member associations, the players have PAID them to do so.

If you need to go to court, you have the right to choose a lawyer to represent you. If you need to sell your home, you have the right to select a realtor to represent you. If you need to negotiate or clarify a circumstance of your employment, you have the right to select an advocate to represent you.

How many other ways does this need to be explained?

 

[Streetwise]

Modi's stance throughout this has been pretty laudable.. He is a jerk in many things but here he has stuck to his guns.. You provide the security plans to the players and to the country boards.. Why the hell are FICA still stuck in something they really shouldn't be? Sharing the security plan with all and sundry is exactly what can cause a security issue...

I dont understand why some people just dont get it, FICA is the players and the players have allready sighted the security plans.

 

[honestbharani]

FICA represents the players at the players behest.

FICA should make representations on the players' behalf because that is what, through the member associations, the players have PAID them to do so.

If you need to go to court, you have the right to choose a lawyer to represent you. If you need to sell your home, you have the right to select a realtor to represent you. If you need to negotiate or clarify a circumstance of your employment, you have the right to select an advocate to represent you.

How many other ways does this need to be explained?

Is the FICA in charge of the contract signings of these players? The teams signed the players on their own.. The IPL board sent them the security plans and to the national cricket boards of the countries involved... What else do FICA need? To show them the plan as well? I am sorry, FICA have no real standing here in India.. If the players want to approach the IPL through someone, let them do through their boards or through their franchises...

 

[honestbharani]

I dont understand why some people just dont get it, FICA is the players and the players have allready sighted the security plans.

FICA DID NOT help the players get IPL contracts.. FICA is not recognized in India.. IPL is INDIAN Premier League.. For a couple of blokes who keep berating that others don't get it, you guys have no clue either, do you????????/

 

[Streetwise]

FICA DID NOT help the players get IPL contracts.. FICA is not recognized in India.. IPL is INDIAN Premier League.. For a couple of blokes who keep berating that others don't get it, you guys have no clue either, do you????????/

WE do get it, you are saying that players do not have the basic human right to choose who they can nominate to represent them. We do get that you are saying that Modi is telling players who are busy travelling all over the world playing cricket that they cannot elect someone to represent them to ensure they have the people qualified in such matters of importance to them.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Put simply, if Iam an Indian teacher employed by an Australian school in Australia, facing a terror threat, I contact the school authorities, the local police, the agent who facilitated my contract with the school. I try and locate a local teachers union that has some standing there. I don't expect the school to entertain the Indian teachers union based in Chinchpokli with no standing in Australia, whether I pay them or not.

 

[Streetwise]

Put simply, if Iam an Indian teacher employed by an Australian school in Australia, facing a terror threat, I contact the school authorities, the local police, the agent who facilitated my contract with the school. I try and locate a local teachers union that has some standing there. I don't expect the school to entertain the Indian teachers union based in Chinchpokli with no standing in Australia, whether I pay them or not.

FICA is not an Australian players association, players from all over the world are involved.

The Federation of International Cricketers’ Associations (FICA) was established in 1998 to co-ordinate the activities of all national players’ associations which protect the interests of professional cricketers throughout the world. It brings together all of the world’s cricketers, regardless of nationality, religion, political persuasion or race, under an international body which will focus on matters of general interest to the game and its players.

It represents all cricketers, this is not an Australian thing, NZ players are asking the same questions and SA players are aswell as English players.

 

[Streetwise]

FICA Officers
President Jimmy Adams (West Indies)
Chief Executive Tim May (Australia)
Secretary Tony Irish (South Africa)

Treasurer
Paul Marsh (Australia)
Senior Vice-President David Graveney (England)

General
Committee Men Paul Marsh
Heath Mills (New Zealand)
Dinanath Ramnarine (West Indies)
Graeme Labrooy (Sri Lanka)
TBA (Zimbabwe)

 

[Sir Alex]

Ok to amend GI Joe's example, an associaction that has members from Calgary, Cincinnati, Chinkpokli, Chittagong and Canberra. Still they've no backing whatsoever.

IPL DOESNT RECOGNISE FICA. They need not. They are accountable to only the players and not some organisation they represent.

God how I wish these Australians understood it. It is like The Sangh Parivar approaching the PM of Australia and asking him to detail how "equipped" Australia is to deal with the racist attacks in that country on Indians, just because two or three Indians in Australia used to be in that while they were in India. Sangh Parivar "apparently" is global and have members across the world ok.

 

[Sir Alex]

You mean a group that the players are members of and want to communicate through? It's exactly the same as having their own union consisting of only them.

Maybe or maybe not. But the moot point is that IPL recognise them.

Let me take a step back and ask two specific questions, because I think the point is being missed.

1. Do you think the players should be informed of security plans that are in place to protect them?
2. Do you think the players would have a better bargaining position if they decide together what to do?

1. Of course yes. But for assuring security one need not give blueprints of entire security plans right? I mean does Microsoft give out their source code just because they claim Windows 7 is extremely equipped to deal with network threats?

2. That depends upon whether the employer is ready to accept the collective mrepresenting the individual. I don't think any employer, unless pressurised by state laws to do so, would do it. Even if they do, they wouldn't want any collecive that is not recognised by their own government as a legit union. Here am not sure Indian government recognises FICA as a legit union.

Fifteen pages of discussion over nothing?

Even Reg Dickason now apparently thinks, or has said to to Australian players, that the 313 brigade threat is not credible. From the moment I saw the journalist's wet-piece on the same terrorist - I've myself felt that there was half-a-chance that this whole thing was either a lack of diligence on the part of Syed Shahzad or even possibly his complicity in circulating a false report.

This doesn't mean either that IPL & players should relax, nor that there wont be any other meat-heads who'd get an idea from this whole fracas, while meat-head #1 either just put out one email, or was a figment of someone's imagination.

But, for the moment, it's highly possible that we've all been had.

Haha, yes. Knew this would happen.

 

[Streetwise]

:l

IPL DOESNT RECOGNISE FICA. They need not. They are accountable to only the players and not some organisation they represent.
.

I guess you just have diferent opinions to me, I think a player has the right to have someone act on their behalf on non playing issues so he can concentrate on playing.

Its a dead horse you are flogging, it would be more efficient for IPL to deal with the issues just once instead of repeating the exercise with each individual player. The players are still going to ask for the same commitment regardless of who represents them. A clash of cultures if you like,

 

[Sir Alex]

FICA represents the players at the players behest.

FICA should make representations on the players' behalf because that is what, through the member associations, the players have PAID them to do so.

If you need to go to court, you have the right to choose a lawyer to represent you. If you need to sell your home, you have the right to select a realtor to represent you. If you need to negotiate or clarify a circumstance of your employment, you have the right to select an advocate to represent you.

How many other ways does this need to be explained?

Could you please list out the details about voting power that each player union hold in FICA? And the no. of members country wise? I think that would give better insight to who actually has "the power" within FICA.

WE do get it, you are saying that players do not have the basic human right to choose who they can nominate to represent them. We do get that you are saying that Modi is telling players who are busy travelling all over the world playing cricket that they cannot elect someone to represent them to ensure they have the people qualified in such matters of importance to them.

This is not a court FFS. Nobody is arbitrating here. If players have a security issue, let them ask the teams and then the IPL themselves to be assured about it. Nobody is preventing from players to do that, are they? So if they are given the right to be explained to, why bring in unrelated outsiders? Nobody is saying players can't consult security experts to check whether the assurances given by IPL are okay or not, but that they can do at their own expense and without explicitly consulting IPL.

Here the FICA and all player unions have at best the validity of a tax consultant that the player has appointed.

 

[Streetwise]

1. Of course yes. But for assuring security one need not give blueprints of entire security plans right? I mean does Microsoft give out their source code just because they claim Windows 7 is extremely equipped to deal with network threats?

.

Nobody wants the blue prints of the entire security plans, nobody has asked for them.

Why do you keep on insisting that FICA want something, the players have asked the IPL to make a commitment to the security plans beore they travel to India. You are saying the IPL dont have to respond to this request and want each individual play to ask the question.

Dont you see the difference.

In case you ask are FICA doing this, its because everyone will get the same information and save the IPL from going through the process 50 times when it can be done in one instance, common sense really.

 

[Sir Alex]

I guess you just have diferent opinions to me, I think a player has the right to have someone act on their behalf on non playing issues so he can concentrate on playing.

Its a dead horse you are flogging, it would be more efficient for IPL to deal with the issues just once instead of repeating the exercise with each individual player. The players are still going to ask for the same commitment regardless of who represents them. A clash of cultures if you like,

Haha you are just being argumentative for the sake of it I guess. The only guys who are apparently having a problem with security are some random Australian IPL players, perhaps a few English and South African players. Established IPLers like Shane Warne, Matt Hayden, Gilchrist etc have no problem about the security apparently. So exactly WHOM are the FICA representing?
I see FICA has not a single Indian, Pakistani, or Bangladeshi member in their leadership group so am really concerned about the objectivity of the group.
As Modi said, if players aren't satisfied about security even after IPL's explanation, they are free to pull out. Did players say they can be represented by FICA at the time of contracting with the IPL?

 

[Sir Alex]

Nobody wants the blue prints of the entire security plans, nobody has asked for them.

Why do you keep on insisting that FICA want something, the players have asked the IPL to make a commitment to the security plans beore they travel to India. You are saying the IPL dont have to respond to this request and want each individual play to ask the question.

Dont you see the difference.

In case you ask are FICA doing this, its because everyone will get the same information and save the IPL from going through the process 50 times when it can be done in one instance, common sense really.

First of all, there are hardly 50 expats in the tournament altogther and secondly the ones who really have issues with IPL does not amount to more than say 10-15 I guess.
The rest is answered in my post above.
And please don't try to "tone down" the attitude of Player Associations. They approached Modi initally with a demand to "shift the IPL out of India". Who are they to "dictate" when they belong to a minority? If they have some problems to come to India, they need not. Plain and simple. IPL doesn't see any purpose in pandering to the concerns of a few individuals' paranoia, however legit it might appear to them. If you don't get it it is called "Management by exceptions".

 

[Streetwise]

Could you please list out the details about voting power that each player union hold in FICA? And the no. of members country wise? I think that would give better insight to who actually has "the power" within FICA..

The players have the power, nobody else has. They can opt to have FICA represent them or they can represent themselves. Completely up to each player what he wants.


You are the only one isisting that the player has to handle all these issues themselves and cannot have someone represent them. What seems to be the problem with FICA to you personally, I just dont see why there is this fear of the player being professional and organised.