Ottis Gibson quits England for Windies role

[shivfan]

You're wrong actually, Corbin made his debut for CCC last year and has played nine FC matches and has scored 453 runs thus far, including three 50's, his last match he got 74 against Guyana too, Brathwaite has played only two FC matches yes but in those two games he's managed to get 137 runs already, so they are clearly showing the signs of being top class players for the future, the bowlers i believe would be a much lesser risk, Bess is one of the leading fast bowlers this season with 12 wickets, Mclean has also played 17 FC matches (with 45 wickets) and has international experience against Bangladesh, looking at our shadow side today it's clear we MUST start to bring through the youth Mike, you might be scared of change but at the end of the day if there's no change we'll continue to get embarrassed like we have been recently.

So do you think nine FC matches are enough for a player like Corbin to go up against Steyn and Morkel?

None of them have managed a FC century yet, so how are they expected to do so in Test cricket? Walk before you can run....

Yes, we're playing Zimbabwe first, but it must be realistic preparation for SOuth Africa, which is the more important tour. Corbin, Brathwaite, and others will be better managed if they're allowed to play domestic four-day cricket for their territories first, to build a case for their callup, then being summoned into an ODI series against Zimbabwe before they're ready.

As I said with McClean above, he has struggled, managing only six wickets at an expensive average of 41. He does not deserve a place in the side. As for Bess, as I said above, if he keeps up the good work, I don't have a problem with him being called up.

As you've said above, the bowlers are probably less of a risk than the batsmen. IMHO, the batsmen need the four-day game to prepare them for Test cricket, and they need to tread the path already taken by Barath....

What's good for Barath, is good for them. I'm sure Gibson sees it that way too....

 

[Craig]

Yeah it is a pretty loose premise if you are picking guys soley on 'talent'. Pick your best team for Zimbabwe so you can hopefully crush them and gain some form of confidence and form. Or just see it as free match practice.

 

[WindieWeathers]

So do you think nine FC matches are enough for a player like Corbin to go up against Steyn and Morkel?

None of them have managed a FC century yet, so how are they expected to do so in Test cricket? Walk before you can run....

Yes, we're playing Zimbabwe first, but it must be realistic preparation for SOuth Africa, which is the more important tour. Corbin, Brathwaite, and others will be better managed if they're allowed to play domestic four-day cricket for their territories first, to build a case for their callup, then being summoned into an ODI series against Zimbabwe before they're ready.

As I said with McClean above, he has struggled, managing only six wickets at an expensive average of 41. He does not deserve a place in the side. As for Bess, as I said above, if he keeps up the good work, I don't have a problem with him being called up.

As you've said above, the bowlers are probably less of a risk than the batsmen. IMHO, the batsmen need the four-day game to prepare them for Test cricket, and they need to tread the path already taken by Barath....

What's good for Barath, is good for them. I'm sure Gibson sees it that way too....

Lol well it was you who got the stats wrong Mike , if we were playing Pakistan instead of Zimbabwe then you'd have a point, but lets be honest here we're playing a poor side so the risk is a lot less than normal, which is why i believe it's the perfect opportunity to give these youngsters international experience to see if they can cut it, i'd also add Jason Mohhemed and Kieran Powell who are doing ok this season, i think it's pretty clear we're on different sides of the road Mike, i'm bored of the status quo disgracing the WI shirt and you're happy with them to carry on, ok i guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

P.S. no-one knows what Gibson will do, but i have heard him talk enthusiastically about the young talent he saw when England last toured the caribbean so i guess we'll have to wait and see .

 

[WindieWeathers]

Yeah it is a pretty loose premise if you are picking guys soley on 'talent'. Pick your best team for Zimbabwe so you can hopefully crush them and gain some form of confidence and form. Or just see it as free match practice.

I'm just saying we should try out some of the great young talent we have in the first two one dayers against them, then we can give the "stars" the last three games, i don't see what we have to lose with that, it would be a massive success if another Roach or Barath emerges, which is very possible imo.

 

[Craig]

I'm just saying we should try out some of the great young talent we have in the first two one dayers against them, then we can give the "stars" the last three games, i don't see what we have to lose with that, it would be a massive success if another Roach or Barath emerges, which is very possible imo.

That is what 'A' team tours are for. If there is any planned, then that would be perfect for them. I mean Barath wasn't thrown in at the deep end, he has a solid record at FC level by doing the hard yards, and that is what the rest should do. Both have only a handful of Tests under their belt, nobody has any idea how good, or even indeed bad, they will be. I would be a bit hesitant any of the younger players another Barath or Roach.

Again, perfect for 'A' team tours.

 

[shivfan]

Heeeeeeeelllllllllooooooooooooooooo???

I was waiting to see if someone more informed than me would say something....

Garrick is sadly indisciplined. He got dropped from the Jamaica side shortly after being dropped from the Windies, for some bad behaviour in a team bus. he was omitted from the Jamaica squad that year. He eventually made his way back into the Jamaica team in a subsequent year, but his performances with the bat were unimpressive, and he was out again.

I get the impression he depended heavily on raw talent, and wasn't prepared to put in the hard work that was necessary to make it at the top....

 

[shivfan]

That is what 'A' team tours are for. If there is any planned, then that would be perfect for them. I mean Barath wasn't thrown in at the deep end, he has a solid record at FC level by doing the hard yards, and that is what the rest should do. Both have only a handful of Tests under their belt, nobody has any idea how good, or even indeed bad, they will be. I would be a bit hesitant any of the younger players another Barath or Roach.

Again, perfect for 'A' team tours.

Exactly!

It's pointless selecting a group of youngsters - whether they've played two FC matches or nine - for them to be massacred and embarrassed by ZImbabwe, the way the third-string side was by Bangladesh. As for Kieran Powell and Jason Mohammed, once they finish in the top five of the batting averages at the end of the four-day competition, then they will have made a case for their selection. But not before then....

 

[WindieWeathers]

That is what 'A' team tours are for. If there is any planned, then that would be perfect for them. I mean Barath wasn't thrown in at the deep end, he has a solid record at FC level by doing the hard yards, and that is what the rest should do. Both have only a handful of Tests under their belt, nobody has any idea how good, or even indeed bad, they will be. I would be a bit hesitant any of the younger players another Barath or Roach.

Again, perfect for 'A' team tours.

Some of them played against Bangadesh though like Roach so they already have international experience, yeah we could play the strongest team, spank them and get our confidence up but the same jokers will still let us down against South Africa, i'm not looking for eleven new players, i'm just hoping two or three youngsters can come through and give the selectors something to think about.

Mike even argued with me about Barath in the past so needless to say i'm not surprised his stance hasn't changed when it comes to giving youth a chance.

 

[Craig]

It's not that we (or certainly I) don't have anything against giving youth a chance, not just for the sake of it, because 'player x' has potential and talent despite not doing anything to deserve that chance. If they have, fair enough, but the evidence suggests not. But I'm calling for West Indies 'A' teams to give these guys a chance and gain some experience that way.

Or even better would be an International Emerging Players Tournament, something Umar Akmal played in and did very well in (that was played in Australia during our winter last year).

I'm most certainly not a 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' person.

BTW, do you sleep? It must be very early where ever you live.

 

[WindieWeathers]

It's not that we (or certainly I) don't have anything against giving youth a chance, not just for the sake of it, because 'player x' has potential and talent despite not doing anything to deserve that chance. If they have, fair enough, but the evidence suggests not. But I'm calling for West Indies 'A' teams to give these guys a chance and gain some experience that way.

Or even better would be an International Emerging Players Tournament, something Umar Akmal played in and did very well in (that was played in Australia during our winter last year).

I'm most certainly not a 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' person.

BTW, do you sleep? It must be very early where ever you live.

I believe some of them do deserve a chance like Brandon Bess who's one of the leading seam bowlers this season with 12 wickets, Kyle Corbin who's really starting to show his potential and has 137 runs in two matches this season, Imran Khan who's been the best spinner in the caribbean of late etc, in all honesty i'd rather lose a game giving young talent good experience than lose a game with old clowns in the shirt who don't give a sh/t anymore.

As for my sleep, it can be erratic to say the least , i woke up nine hours ago so i'm ok.

 

[Craig]

What makes you think someone like Brendan Nash doesn't give a **** about playing for the WI? Because he wasn't born in Jamaica? He took a huge gamble to move to Jamaica and to prove himself, just because had played Sheffield Shield cricket in Australia, didn't mean he would make it, and like everybody else, he had to show the selectors he is worthy of a spot. Because he went for so long without scoring a run in the Perth Test? Well **** happens, the bowling didn't allow any free runs, or maybe his feet, timing wasn't the best, it is Test cricket not T20.

Also judging by the way Gayle played in the second innings in Adelaide, showed he does care about the team, and considering he flew half way around the world to play in Brisbane, most prove something.

As for some of the talented youngsters, if they do well this season, back it up next season, and then we can judge.

 

[WindieWeathers]

What makes you think someone like Brendan Nash doesn't give a **** about playing for the WI? Because he wasn't born in Jamaica? He took a huge gamble to move to Jamaica and to prove himself, just because had played Sheffield Shield cricket in Australia, didn't mean he would make it, and like everybody else, he had to show the selectors he is worthy of a spot. Because he went for so long without scoring a run in the Perth Test? Well **** happens, the bowling didn't allow any free runs, or maybe his feet, timing wasn't the best, it is Test cricket not T20.

Also judging by the way Gayle played in the second innings in Adelaide, showed he does care about the team, and considering he flew half way around the world to play in Brisbane, most prove something.

As for some of the talented youngsters, if they do well this season, back it up next season, and then we can judge.

Erm did i mention Nash specifically? you've distorted my views there, Morton has been in the side, Dowlin is in the side etc, i'd just rather see a few of our talented young players introduced into the fold, especially now we've got a new manager for them to work with, if you don't agree with that philosophy, fine, but i'm sticking to my guns that it would be the best thing for WI cricket.

 

[Richard]

I was waiting to see if someone more informed than me would say something....

Garrick is sadly indisciplined. He got dropped from the Jamaica side shortly after being dropped from the Windies, for some bad behaviour in a team bus. he was omitted from the Jamaica squad that year. He eventually made his way back into the Jamaica team in a subsequent year, but his performances with the bat were unimpressive, and he was out again.

I get the impression he depended heavily on raw talent, and wasn't prepared to put in the hard work that was necessary to make it at the top....

Great stuff, thanks.

 

[shivfan]

Any time, Richard....

Barbados are playing Guyana in a four-day game at Albion that has just started, and in naming their team, Barbados decided to go with Corey Edwards as seamer, and omitted Jason Holder. So, if Holder's not yet good enough to play for Barbados, how's he going to play for the West Indies?

Give him time, man....

 

[WindieWeathers]

Any time, Richard....

Barbados are playing Guyana in a four-day game at Albion that has just started, and in naming their team, Barbados decided to go with Corey Edwards as seamer, and omitted Jason Holder. So, if Holder's not yet good enough to play for Barbados, how's he going to play for the West Indies?

Give him time, man....

Yeah but Brathwaite and Dorwich played didn't they? and did you see what Kantasingh done to Jamaica today? Kiaran Powell also impressed again coming in at three and got 48 runs, so like i said Mike it's time to give some of these brilliant youngsters a chance .

 

[shivfan]

Yeah but Brathwaite and Dorwich played didn't they? and did you see what Kantasingh done to Jamaica today? Kiaran Powell also impressed again coming in at three and got 48 runs, so like i said Mike it's time to give some of these brilliant youngsters a chance .

I hardly call 48 scored on a dead batting track in Guyana 'impressive'. Powell's going to have to do a lot more than that to earn a place in the WI side. They need to hit centuries at FC level before getting into the WI side. The West Indies made the error of admitting Marlon Samuels and Xavier Marshall into the WI side before they'd scored heavily for Jamaica. They shouldn't admit Powell until he knows how to score centuires for the Leewards. His average for the Leewards this season is a paltry 20, so he needs to do a lot more than that....

Kantasingh bowled well, and I'm sure he'll be in the reckoning. Unfortunately, bowling spin isn't our problem where selection is concerned.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I hardly call 48 scored on a dead batting track in Guyana 'impressive'. Powell's going to have to do a lot more than that to earn a place in the WI side. They need to hit centuries at FC level before getting into the WI side. The West Indies made the error of admitting Marlon Samuels and Xavier Marshall into the WI side before they'd scored heavily for Jamaica. They shouldn't admit Powell until he knows how to score centuires for the Leewards. His average for the Leewards this season is a paltry 20, so he needs to do a lot more than that....

Kantasingh bowled well, and I'm sure he'll be in the reckoning. Unfortunately, bowling spin isn't our problem where selection is concerned.

Powell used to open the bating and sometimes he'd get out early, but right now his confidence seems to be growing and his move to three has seen him stay at the crease for long spells and he's playing all the strokes in the book now, i think it's unrealistic to expect 19 year olds to score 100's every week, not even experienced players like Nash do that, the bottom line is the kid is getting better and better and i don't believe he'd look out of place in the ODI side, especially when he's already played at that level twice,

In the case of Kantasingh i must admit he's starting to impress me now, 23 years old and he cleaned bowled two of his victims yesterday which is always a good sign from a spinner, he's got 21 wickets thus far and has the best figures in the season with his 12/84 against Trinidad, i really hope his form continues and hopefully he'll put pressure on big Benn.

 

[Craig]

So Windie did you think the WI selectors made the right decision to pick Xavier Marshall when they did?

 

[WindieWeathers]

So Windie did you think the WI selectors made the right decision to pick Xavier Marshall when they did?

At the end of the day you win some, you lose some, just because Marshall failed to live up to the hype doesn't mean others will take the same path, Barath certainly didn't look out of place against the Aussies.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Barath did about 10 times more than Marshall did before he was picked. That said, 10 x 0 = 0, so maybe I'm underestimating what Barath achieved before he was picked. But I'll say no more. Continue to discuss amongst yourselves.