*Official* South Africa in India

[silentstriker]

Not for long

Oz has a better pace attack than SA and a better spinner so the chances are that they'll sweep all before them for a while

Anyway, bottom line is that their is no clear cut no.1 but you respect the rankings and a few teams will have their time in the sun (unless India take the cowards way out and serve up a minefield, in which case it'll be India no.1 for a while but it'll be accompanied ny a massive * )

So consistently being better than another team on a specific type of wicket = cowards way out. I don't want any ball bouncing above knee height next time India tour SA. Obviously cowards way out for a pitch to help Morkel that much.

Very few things in cricket truly make my blood boil. The first being 'good pitch' being a synonym for a airport runway, and second, that fast bowling paradises test your manhood and spin bowling paradises are the cowards way out.

Learn2PlaySpin. Put as many * as you want.

 

[L Trumper]

So consistently being better than another team on a specific type of wicket = cowards way out. I don't want any ball bouncing above knee height next time India tour SA. Obviously cowards way out for a pitch to help Morkel that much.

Very few things in cricket truly make my blood boil. The first being 'good pitch' being a synonym for a airport runway, and second, that fast bowling paradises test your manhood and spin bowling paradises are the cowards way out.

Learn2PlaySpin. Put as many * as you want.

+1
At the same time pitches with cracks in it(uneven bounce unfair advantage for quick and spin)
or pitches turn from first morning(assist spinners unfairly) both are bull ****.
Then again after all these flat tracks i don't mind if teams get rolled under one session with pitch being unfit to play, be it bouncy or spinning.

 

[G.I.Joe]

+1
At the same time pitches with cracks in it(uneven bounce unfair advantage for quick and spin)
or pitches turn from first morning(assist spinners unfairly) both are bull ****.
Then again after all these flat tracks i don't mind if teams get rolled under one session with pitch being unfit to play, be it bouncy or spinning.

Plain wrong on the bolded one. There is absolutely no logic that dictates that a pitch that spins from day one is a bad one. If one is fine by a pitch that seams all 5 days and doesn't help the spinners, this is perfectly fine too.

 

[L Trumper]

Plain wrong on the bolded one. There is absolutely no logic that dictates that a pitch that spins from day one is a bad one. If one is fine by a pitch that seams all 5 days and doesn't help the spinners, this is perfectly fine too.

No . If pitch starts turning from lunch day one it'll crumble by the end of day two and in no way can be deemed fit to play from day 3 onwards.
If there is a pitch that seam all 5 days , it'll crumble on day 4 and generally helpful for spinners for the last two days.
I wasn't wrong.

 

[Sir Alex]

No . If pitch starts turning from lunch day one it'll crumble by the end of day two and in no way can be deemed fit to play from day 3 onwards.
If there is a pitch that seam all 5 days , it'll crumble on day 4 and generally helpful for spinners for the last two days.
I wasn't wrong.

Take it as the reverse opposite of greenbed that is a batsman's nightmare on Day 1 and eases as the match progresses. The team that bats first is severely tested in this case while in the spinden's case the team that bat last.

 

[silentstriker]

No . If pitch starts turning from lunch day one it'll crumble by the end of day two and in no way can be deemed fit to play from day 3 onwards.
If there is a pitch that seam all 5 days , it'll crumble on day 4 and generally helpful for spinners for the last two days.
I wasn't wrong.

The Test match just ended had a pitch that turned from lunch on day one, and it was fine on day four.

 

[L Trumper]

Take it as the reverse opposite of greenbed that is a batsman's nightmare on Day 1 and eases as the match progresses. The team that bats first is severely tested in this case while in the spinden's case the team that bat last.

Still if it is a seaming pitch it'll help spinners eventually. And if the team batting second had to bat on 5th day pitch then they had to prepare for spin. But in case of spin dens they have unfair advantage for spinners no wrong in producing them now and then, but its more or less like sabina 98 or perth 96/97.

My point is bouncy pitches will help spinners cause of bounce and eventually crumble too. But spin pitches (not regulars but the ones where it spins from first morning) do not assist quick bowlers as much.

 

[Shri]

Still if it is a seaming pitch it'll help spinners eventually. And if the team batting second had to bat on 5th day pitch then they had to prepare for spin. But in case of spin dens they have unfair advantage for spinners no wrong in producing them now and then, but its more or less like sabina 98 or perth 96/97.

My point is bouncy pitches will help spinners cause of bounce and eventually crumble too. But spin pitches (not regulars but the ones where it spins from first morning) do not assist quick bowlers as much.

The uneven bounce helps the hit the deck sort of pace bowlers or the skiddy pace bowlers. It just doesn't help swing bowlers.

 

[L Trumper]

The Test match just ended had a pitch that turned from lunch on day one, and it was fine on day four.

This pitch is not a mine field and its no problem to have pitches if they can last five days even if they turn from day 1. But pitches which will become unplayable by the end of day 3 are the ones i am talking about. They don't last five days.

 

[silentstriker]

Still if it is a seaming pitch it'll help spinners eventually. And if the team batting second had to bat on 5th day pitch then they had to prepare for spin. But in case of spin dens they have unfair advantage for spinners no wrong in producing them now and then, but its more or less like sabina 98 or perth 96/97.

My point is bouncy pitches will help spinners cause of bounce and eventually crumble too. But spin pitches (not regulars but the ones where it spins from first morning) do not assist quick bowlers as much.

OK, the pitch of the match that just ended turned from the first morning and Steyn dominated and the pitch was fine on the 4th day.

All three points you make are wrong...

 

[G.I.Joe]

There exist pitches that just seam and offer no assistance to spinners at any point. As long as they exist uncriticized, there is no basis for claiming that first day spinners are unfair.

 

[silentstriker]

This pitch is not a mine field and its no problem to have pitches if they can last five days even if they turn from day 1. But pitches which will become unplayable by the end of day 3 are the ones i am talking about. They don't last five days.

That's different from saying pitches that turn on day one.....

Those are two criteria. You say:

Pitches should last for five days.
Pitches shouldn't turn on day one.

Those are not necessarily related. And I don't see why pitches should last give days anyway, but that's a separate issue. ICC doesn't get its panties in a knot when a pitch is made to last a month..

 

[L Trumper]

The uneven bounce helps the hit the deck sort of pace bowlers or the skiddy pace bowlers. It just doesn't help swing bowlers.

But if it lasts for 5 days then fine, some times from day 3 onwards some balls will shoot at ankle high and some part timers can turn it a feet. Those are the pitches i am talking about. There is no wrong in spin pitches but it should survive for 5 days.

 

[L Trumper]

That's different from saying pitches that turn on day one.....

Those are two criteria. You say:

Pitches should last for five days.
Pitches shoudn't turn on day one.

Those are not necessarily related.

Yeah I didn't interpret correctly. But generally pitches that turn from lunch day one don't expected to last 5 days.

 

[silentstriker]

Even that is debatable. Look at the Kanpur pitch where ICC threw a bitchy fit. India batted second and yet scored a total of 400 runs for loss of 12 wickets. If the other team can't score on that same pitch despite batting first, whose fault is that?

 

[L Trumper]

Even that is debatable. Look at the Kanpur pitch where ICC threw a bitchy fit. India batted second and yet scored 400 runs for loss of 12 wickets. If the other team can't score on that same pitch despite batting first, whose fault is that?

Indians in second innings chased around 60 not around 150 so you should consider first inning performances. Ganguly and Laxman played great innings against attack that can't exploit the pitch's assistance(its bowlers' problem). Still SA batsman did good in both of their innings. Their 130 in the second innings is a good score against indian spinners. Pitch is fine for what it is but in making sure of a result pitch they made a pitch which lasts for only 3 days.

 

[silentstriker]

The match lasted for three days. That doesn't mean the pitch lasted for three days. That's like saying the pitch only lasted for four days in this past match - no, the pitch was fine.

Their second innings score of 121 was bad batting to spin on a helpful pitch to spin. It was terrible - I'd be embarrased if India batted that badly (as I was with India's performance in Ahemdabad).

I hate the hypocricy. The Test before - Ahemdabad - that was over in three days too, but why isn't the pitch blamed?

Oh I see - if you can't score against fast bowlers, it's your fault. But if you can't score against spin, it's the pitches fault....

I guess I'm under the mistaken impression that Test cricket should test your abilities in different situations, conditions, even when it helps only spin, only batsmen, only fast bowling...

 

[Zinzan]

And this is relevant to the thread? I am glad India's bowlers don't pump their arses with steroids and bite the ball pretending to smell it. Nor do Indian bowlers have to use bottle caps like the great Imran Khan to tamper the ball. Oh I forgot - they aren't filthy match fixers like your Wasim Akram either.There are probably many LeT and Al Qaeda websites waiting for you....

It's relevant because someone specifically asked if China had the fastest growing middle-class if you care to look back.

Also, hate to burst your misconception, but I'm no Pakistani, I'm a New Zealander born & bred

 

[L Trumper]

The match lasted for three days. That doesn't mean the pitch lasted for three days. That's like saying the pitch only lasted for four days in this past match - no, the pitch was fine.

Their second innings score of 121 was bad batting to spin on a helpful pitch to spin. It was terrible - I'd be embarrased if India batted that badly (as I was with India's performance in Ahemdabad).

I hate the hypocricy. The Test before - Ahemdabad - that was over in three days too, but why isn't the pitch blamed?

Oh I see - if you can't score against fast bowlers, it's your fault. But if you can't score against spin, it's the pitches fault....

I guess I'm under the mistaken impression that Test cricket should test your abilities in different situations, conditions, even when it helps only spin, only batsmen, only fast bowling...

No it wasn't pitches fault. A batsman should be able to play on any pitch.
On Ahmedabad pitch SA batters and Ind in 2nd innings didn't really troubled terribly and part timer like kallis didn't produce peaches. But in kanpur both set of batters struggled and sehwag spinning almost a feet which will make opposition a little bit ..... And Kanpur pitch was almost unplayable on day 3 and crumbled too , so day 4 will be lot worse. To their credit SA never made any formal complaint and they were okay with it. So ICCs fit is hypocritical.

 

[Sir Alex]

A batsman should be able to play on any pitch.

/thread. There is marriage of minds here.

I disagree on labelling both Kallis and Sehwag as parttimers. Sehwag sometimes spin it more than Harbhajan and his loop and flight is good as well. He took a fifer at one of the most unresponsive pitch at Delhi against the Australians remember.