*Official* Bangladesh in New Zealand

[Howsie]

Yet more likely to be NO since 09- 38 players have averaged 35+ batting 5 or lower.
Changing that to batting only from 5-7 and we get 28.
1-3 sees that rise to 42 even though you'd expect for the most part those batsman are superior to any number 7 easily.

Ummm, how about just doing from six down aye? Broom's only batted at five once.

 

[Howsie]

How would Williamson get in the top 4? Guptill got into the ODI world XI with his batting and Taylor isn't going anywhere.

Exactly, so Williamson is a no go until a spot opens up or he continues to plunder runs at 100 for another year.

 

[Athlai]

Exactly, so Williamson is a no go until a spot opens up or he continues to plunder runs at 100 for another year.

I think Williamson's game would be well suited to 5-6 actually. Still want him to wait a few years.

And in other news the overall runs scored at 6 by all teams since 09 is:

6675 @ 28.04


With guys who have batted more than 5 innings at number 6 or 7 in this period (37 people)
Only Ramdin, Kapugedera, Bernard, Odoyo, Pollard and Oram have lower averages.
3 average 50+
6 average 40+
8 average 35+
14 average 30+
23 average 25+

Broom is 32nd of the 37 marginally behind Maharoof. The next worst player to play over 15+ innings is Afridi with 398 @ 22.11 SR 121.71 and then Hopes 366 @ 28.15 SR 90

 

[Howsie]

I think Williamson's game would be well suited to 5-6 actually. Still want him to wait a few years.

And in other news the overall runs scored at 6 by all teams since 09 is:

6675 @ 28.04


With guys who have batted more than 5 innings at number 6 or 7 in this period (37 people)
Only Ramdin, Kapugedera, Bernard, Odoyo, Pollard and Oram have lower averages.
3 average 50+
6 average 40+
8 average 35+
14 average 30+
23 average 25+

Broom is 32nd of the 37 marginally behind Maharoof. The next worst player to play over 15+ innings is Afridi with 398 @ 22.11 SR 121.71 and then Hopes 366 @ 28.15 SR 90

Why do so many think Williamson would be better suited down the order? When you have someone as young as him score a bucket load of runs batting at three in age group cricket, and then do it at both the under 19 level and domestic one day level why would you think he's better suited down the order? All through is cricketing career he's scored 100's, and a lot of them. He isn't going to have the same time to do that batting at six.

He's always been a number three and I don't ever see that changing.

As for that stat, Broom averages 25 at six which is only three less then the international average. Hmmm

 

[Athlai]

Why do so many think Williamson would be better suited down the order? When you have someone as young as him score a bucket load of runs batting at three in age group cricket, and then do it at both the under 19 level and domestic one day level why would you think he's better suited down the order? All through is cricketing career he's scored 100's, and a lot of them. He isn't going to have the same time to do that batting at six.

He's always been a number three and I don't ever see that changing.

As for that stat, Broom averages 25 at six which is only three less then the international average. Hmmm

But at 7 his average goes even lower?

Batting at 3 in domestic cricket and age group isn't the same as batting at 3 in international. I just think he would be suited to both rebuilding an innings and going on a blitzkrieg. Williamson's shown a lot of versatility so far in his career which would be ideal for someone in the lower middle order. Later in his career as he becomes an established bat maybe he can take up his natural spot.

 

[Howsie]

But at 7 his average goes even lower?

Batting at 3 in domestic cricket and age group isn't the same as batting at 3 in international. I just think he would be suited to both rebuilding an innings and going on a blitzkrieg. Williamson's shown a lot of versatility so far in his career which would be ideal for someone in the lower middle order. Later in his career as he becomes an established bat maybe he can take up his natural spot.

Don't agree tbh, with the first part anyway. I've always seen Williamson as someone who's better suited building an innings from the start. He's able to change gears very well depending on the situation, the Wellington game from last week and todays game is a very good example of that. Yes in the past for ND he's been able to rebuild an innings after the fall of early wickets, but even in his short one day career he's been far more successful up the order.

Whenever he breaks into the New Zealand one day team I guarantee he'll be either a three or a four depending on where Taylor's batting. Test cricket will be different though, it would be far too silly (especially if he breaks into the team really young) to bat him any higher then five.

 

[Athlai]

Don't agree tbh, with the first part anyway. I've always seen Williamson as someone who's better suited building an innings from the start. He's able to change gears very well depending on the situation, the Wellington game from last week and todays game is a very good example of that. Yes in the past for ND he's been able to rebuild an innings after the fall of early wickets, but even in his short one day career he's been far more successful up the order.

Whenever he breaks into the New Zealand one day team I guarantee he'll be either a three or a four depending on where Taylor's batting. Test cricket will be different though, it would be far too silly (especially if he breaks into the team really young) to bat him any higher then five.

I'd pretty much bank that Williamson will not debut batting 3 or 4.

 

[Flem274*]

Williamson will probably bat at six in tests then get moved up gradually like Ponting. Especially if someone like Merchat/Myburgh/whoever succeeds at three.

In ODIs I wouldnt bat him any lower than five.

 

[Athlai]

Williamson will probably bat at six in tests then get moved up gradually like Ponting. Especially if someone like Merchat/Myburgh/whoever succeeds at three.

In ODIs I wouldnt bat him any lower than five.

Reckon he'll get number 5.

 

[Howsie]

Well I'm banking on Elliott being around for at least another year or so (bad form not age). If he keeps killing it at the domestic level the selectors will just have to move someone, eg McCullum and push Guptill up.

 

[Athlai]

Well I'm banking on Elliott being around for at least another year or so (bad form not age). If he keeps killing it at the domestic level the selectors will just have to move someone, eg McCullum and push Guptill up.

We have a lot of openers and Guptill is killing at 3, can't see us pushing the top order around to fit in Williamson in the next 2 years.

 

[Howsie]

We have a lot of openers and Guptill is killing at 3, can't see us pushing the top order around to fit in Williamson in the next 2 years.

So even if he's killing it this time next year and his career average is still up around 60, you wouldn't push guys like McCullum around to fit him in?

 

[Athlai]

So even if he's killing it this time next year and his career average is still up around 60, you wouldn't push guys like McCullum around to fit him in?

If Baz, BFJ, Guppy and Pinga are still going at 35-45 with the bat then I wouldn't change it for a talented untested youngster. Though maybe in a series against a lesser team?
But in all honesty the averages in the past few years in our domestic competition have been very very high. Williamson's record has been immense though it isn't the first time someone has dominated the domestic scene in a year. If he does it year after year then nothing should hold him back.

 

[Howsie]

Yeah but tbf Williamson did very well in domestic one day cricket last year also, so it's not like this is only one season of form.

 

[Flem274*]

Its amazing how good our ODI depth is compared to our test depth.

Doesn't have anything to do with the Black Caps mainly playing limited overs when they go back to domestic cricket of course.

 

[GGG]

jesus if he is good enough then play him, how old was Vettori when he made his debut? I will never get age as an excuse not to be pick, be it old age or young. People seem to think he is the second coming and he needs to be wrapped up in cotton wool until he is ready to rise.

 

[_Ed_]

Doesn't have anything to do with the Black Caps mainly playing limited overs when they go back to domestic cricket of course.

Of course not! That's just daft.

 

[NZ Guy]

jesus if he is good enough then play him, how old was Vettori when he made his debut? I will never get age as an excuse not to be pick, be it old age or young. People seem to think he is the second coming and he needs to be wrapped up in cotton wool until he is ready to rise.

Oh what? he's not?

 

[Somerset]

jesus if he is good enough then play him, how old was Vettori when he made his debut? I will never get age as an excuse not to be pick, be it old age or young. People seem to think he is the second coming and he needs to be wrapped up in cotton wool until he is ready to rise.

Vettori was 18 when he made his international debut. Whilst I don't think age should be a restriction on selecting a player, I also don't think you can use the argument that if 'you're good enough, you're old enough' to every player - for instance take Martin Crowe who debuted at 19 and repeatedly claims he was picked a couple of years too early to be facing international attacks.

 

[cbuts]

I like it how none of the Broom haters give Broom any credit when he scores 70 and pulls us out of the ****, but are only too happy to put the boot in when he fails.

Just for the record, Brendon McCullum averaged 16 after 18 innings, Styris averaged 12.8 (probably a little unfair because he was picked more as a bowler back then...but he could still bat and was down the order, similar to Broom), Fleming averaged 25.

Yep, Broom has no chance of ever succeeding based on his first 18 ODI innings, no chance at all.

McCullum should be batting 7 - also he at least brought something to the team, ie keeping. Who else would you have, Hopkins, MgGlashan, Young?