*Official* Bangladesh in New Zealand

[Bahnz]

I was actually meaning Daniel Flynn's one day career for New Zealand when I brang him up. He had that really good season for ND in 07/08 batting at three puttting up some big scores and was fast tracked into the New Zealand team batting at six or seven sometimes (he did bat at five a few more times then Broom has though). Flynn can hit a ball just like Broom can, but both of them need to get set before doing it.

Sure, but Flynn was never going to get a spot at number 3 anyway, what with the competition at the top of the order being so tight (remember that back then Jamie How was still a regular at the top of the order, and Taylor still coveted the number 3 slot). And what should a bad sign for Broom is that often in the later overs he's not getting out by taking wild slogs, but by failing to rotate the strike and being genuinely dismissed, often by mediocre bowlers.

 

[Bahnz]

Broom >>>>> Franklin clearly, all signs point to it.

Now if only Jimmy would realise that and go back to being a bowler...

 

[Athlai]

Now if only Jimmy would realise that and go back to being a bowler...

Franklin List A runs since 08-09:

27I 5 NO 961 @ 43.61

Broom List A runs since 08-09:

34I 4 NO 873 @ 29.1

removing international runs since he was so dire
17I 1 NO 601 @ 37.56

Broom hasn't been all that much worse but you can see why Franklin's being given a shot at 5. I think both of them are in all honesty playing for the number 6 position since Elliott will take number 5 when he returns.

In FC:

Franklin since 08-09
38I 6NO 1769 @ 55.28
6 100s 8 50s

Broom since 08-09
19I 3NO 1061 @ 66.7
4 100s 4 50s

Doubt there are many out there with records like those two. If Broom doesn't get a Test I'll be very disappointed. Taylor-Broom-Franklin-Vettori-McCullum would be my 4-8

 

[Halfpast_Yellow]

Sure, but Flynn was never going to get a spot at number 3 anyway, what with the competition at the top of the order being so tight (remember that back then Jamie How was still a regular at the top of the order, and Taylor still coveted the number 3 slot). And what should a bad sign for Broom is that often in the later overs he's not getting out by taking wild slogs, but by failing to rotate the strike and being genuinely dismissed, often by mediocre bowlers.

The guy we discarded who averaged 34.44 from 31 ODIs? Broom as you say has had enough chances in his 18 innings for 18 average to show he is ODI fail.

There is too much competition for places in the squad to carry him. He can rest assured when dropped that better ODI players have been shown the door from this team.

 

[Howsie]

The guy we discarded who averaged 34.44 from 31 ODIs? Broom as you say has had enough chances in his 18 innings for 18 average to show he is ODI fail.

There is too much competition for places in the squad to carry him. He can rest assured when dropped that better ODI players have been shown the door from this team.

Jamie How either opened or batted at three. No way he averages 34 batting lower then five.

 

[Athlai]

Jamie How either opened or batted at three. No way he averages 34 batting lower then five.

Isn't it harder to bat in the top 3?

 

[Halfpast_Yellow]

Jamie How either opened or batted at three. No way he averages 34 batting lower then five.

Speculation. He may have had more N/O to his name to inflate his average. And you face fresh bowlers at the top ^^^


And Broom averages what was it, 22 when he has had time to build his innings?

You really put too much stock in this whole batting order/position thing. There is no need to overcomplicate your batting style based on where you are in the order and the fact is with powerplays in ODIs I would expect my top 6 to be capable and flexible in both rotating singles and hitting boundaries at will depending on a the game on the day.

The fact is Broom has simply looked rank, and out of his depth in most of the opportunities given to him, and to blame some of his modes of dismissal in ODIs such as missing straight balls on his batting position in the team is silly.

He has been given chances and he has failed to take them, he should be booted, as was Flynn.

 

[Howsie]

In one day cricket?

If you were either of Broom or How and not known for being able to clear the ropes where would you rather bat, two, three or four or six/seven?

 

[Athlai]

In one day cricket?

If you were either of Broom or How and not known for being able to clear the ropes where would you rather bat, two, three or four or six/seven?

This seems pretty irrelevant to average really, always room in the lower order for guys who turn the strike and hit fours. Broom just had a rubbish run of form and so far averages 18 in the cricketing form he's weakest at. Not a big deal.

 

[Howsie]

Speculation. He may have had more N/O to his name to inflate his average. And you face fresh bowlers at the top ^^^


And Broom averages what was it, 22 when he has had time to build his innings?

You really put too much stock in this whole batting order/position thing. There is no need to overcomplicate your batting style based on where you are in the order and the fact is with powerplays in ODIs I would expect my top 6 to be capable and flexible in both rotating singles and hitting boundaries at will depending on a the game on the day.

The fact is Broom has simply looked rank, and out of his depth in most of the opportunities given to him, and to blame some of his modes of dismissal in ODIs such as missing straight balls on his batting position in the team is silly.

He has been given chances and he has failed to take them, he should be booted, as was Flynn.

No point arguing with someone if they're rating a player on a handful of one day games tbh.

 

[Athlai]

Speculation. He may have had more N/O to his name to inflate his average. And you face fresh bowlers at the top ^^^


And Broom averages what was it, 22 when he has had time to build his innings?

You really put too much stock in this whole batting order/position thing. There is no need to overcomplicate your batting style based on where you are in the order and the fact is with powerplays in ODIs I would expect my top 6 to be capable and flexible in both rotating singles and hitting boundaries at will depending on a the game on the day.

The fact is Broom has simply looked rank, and out of his depth in most of the opportunities given to him, and to blame some of his modes of dismissal in ODIs such as missing straight balls on his batting position in the team is silly.

He has been given chances and he has failed to take them, he should be booted, as was Flynn.

In fairness to Broom he hasn't been as bad as Flynn.

 

[Athlai]

No point arguing with someone if they're rating a player on a handful of one day games tbh.

It's an argument about the one day squad?

 

[Howsie]

This seems pretty irrelevant to average really, always room in the lower order for guys who turn the strike and hit fours. Broom just had a rubbish run of form and so far averages 18 in the cricketing form he's weakest at. Not a big deal.

I'm just saying. He seemed pretty pissy that Broom was still in the team averaging only 18 and Jamie How was dropped averaging 34 when really there isn't any point of comparing the two as they've batted in complety different times of the one day game.

 

[Days of Grace]

Isn't it harder to bat in the top 3?

It is generally harder to average 35+ batting below no.5 in ODIs, since more often than not you're going for the slog which 90% of the time results in your dismissal before the overs run out. Only Hussey and Bevan have really proven that wrong.

 

[Athlai]

I'm just saying. He seemed pretty pissy that Broom was still in the team averaging only 18 and Jamie How was dropped averaging 34 when really there isn't any point of comparing the two as they've batted in complety different times of the one day game.

Well I'll add a new layer to the argument since the start of 09 when Broom has debuted to the game.
Batsman averaging more than Broom:
Guptill, Taylor, McCullum, Ryder, Elliott, Vettori, Oram, Redmond, Ingram, Fulton, Franklin, McGlashan
Batsman averaging less than Broom:
Flynn, How, Styris, Hopkins, Sinclair, N McCullum, Cumming

I've also bolded players who have played 5 innings or less, looks like they Broom's living in a charmed life. Players like Styris only got limited chances while Broom has played 18 out of 26 matches since 09! Elliott who has played one less innings has scored almost double the runs of Broom! He's hardly a boundary hitter either.

 

[Howsie]

So really only Elliott has done any better then him.

 

[Halfpast_Yellow]

No point arguing with someone if they're rating a player on a handful of one day games tbh.

I'm rating on 18 games, more than enough. Would Australia keep on someone for 18 games who has averaged 18? No. Their depth means they can afford to cut their losses early with players who fail to seize their chance at an international level. It doesn't matter how awesome you are at domestic level, if you don't take your chance to step up to the level required, on your bike and we'll go to someone else who can.

Now that we have good depth for our one-day batting, our policy should be similar. Broom's suckage is keeping proven ODI specialist players like Scott Styris out, and preventing players like Stewart or Williamson from their chance they've earnt.

 

[Athlai]

It is generally harder to average 35+ batting below no.5 in ODIs, since more often than not you're going for the slog which 90% of the time results in your dismissal before the overs run out. Only Hussey and Bevan have really proven that wrong.

Yet more likely to be NO since 09- 38 players have averaged 35+ batting 5 or lower.
Changing that to batting only from 5-7 and we get 28.
1-3 sees that rise to 42 even though you'd expect for the most part those batsman are superior to any number 7 easily.

 

[Howsie]

Why in the world would we want Williamson coming into this current team if they're not going to give him a top four position, Stewart and Styris could probably handle batting at six but not Williamson.

 

[Athlai]

Why in the world would we want Williamson coming into this current team if they're not going to give him a top four position, Stewart and Styris could probably handle batting at six but not Williamson.

How would Williamson get in the top 4? Guptill got into the ODI world XI with his batting and Taylor isn't going anywhere.