*Official* UK off-season 2009/10

[Manee]

Not even better than Jon Lewis? What planet are you on?

Isn't Jon Lewis quite highly rated within county circles? Remember a player remarking on Cricket AM (don't judge me), that he is regarded by some as the best bowler in County Cricket. I thought that a bit much, but it shows that his stats don't line up so well for no reason.

Come to think about it, was he unlucky to get just the one Test match - he does have 678 First Class wickets and didn't disgrace himself in his one Test. Although some may argue that he is a bit slow for Test cricket, I'm sure fewer would disagree with my assertion that he was treated unfairly in the ODI setup and perhaps should have been stuck with for longer.

 

[Richard]

Lewis shouldn't have played his last ODI but he should've gotten into the ODI picture a while before he did. He was a good OD bowler between 1999 and 2006, but has not been from 2007 onwards.

As for Tests it's a downright disgrace that the likes of Mahmood and Plunkett were preferred to him but I'm certainly far from sure that he'd have been successful at Test level. He, unlike some who got it, deserved the chance to try however.

 

[aussie]

Not even better than Jon Lewis? What planet are you on?

What planet are you on?

Jon Lewis at least prior to 2007 WC very much in the calculation as new-ball option in the ODI WC squad, based on his performances for Gloucestershire. So Lewis passed as international quality to a degree in one format.

Davies doesn't even play List A cricket for Durham because he is nonsense in that format which pretty proves why Lewis is/was the better bowler overall.

 

[GIMH]

What planet are you on?

Jon Lewis at least prior to 2007 WC very much in the calculation as new-ball option in the ODI WC squad, based on his performances for Gloucestershire. So Lewis passed as international quality to a degree in one format.

Davies doesn't even play List A cricket for Durham because he is nonsense in that format which pretty proves why Lewis is/was the better bowler overall.

In the words of my friend Uppercut, what the actual f

 

[Scaly piscine]

What planet are you on?

Jon Lewis at least prior to 2007 WC very much in the calculation as new-ball option in the ODI WC squad, based on his performances for Gloucestershire. So Lewis passed as international quality to a degree in one format.

Davies doesn't even play List A cricket for Durham because he is nonsense in that format which pretty proves why Lewis is/was the better bowler overall.

Couldn't give a toss about ODIs and List A.

Davies plays in the top division and totally dominates teams in FC cricket - particularly proper batsmen, he isn't someone who just comes in and rips through the tail. He's also more economical than Lewis.

Davies is a miles better FC/Test bowler than Lewis. Therefore he is a miles better *bowler* than Lewis.

 

[aussie]

In the words of my friend Uppercut, what the actual f

The F is that Lewis looked international standard in ODIs which proves he was more versatile as a bowler than Davies, who Durham dont play in List A cricket because he is crap in that format.

Couldn't give a toss about ODIs and List A.

You need to as formentioned to GIMH. The fact that Lewis was good in more than one formats makes him a more versatile bowler than Davies.

Davies plays in the top division and totally dominates teams in FC cricket - particularly proper batsmen,

As i keep saying & this is something many chose not to accept. FC success in ENG doesn't = international success. The sooner people accept or begin to believe this to be true not because i say it - but because how the standard of CC cricket has declined since the 70s - the better.

Just because Davies dominates for Durham in division makes him any good or any close to international quality. As i keep saying that fact that he does well is far more an indictment on our standard of FC cricket, rather than any sign that Davies is anything special.

Lets not forget Big Harmo has played a major part in Durham success in recent years by dominating FC batsmen. But yet when he comes back to play tests, he really hasn't been able to bring forward that FC from. Further proof why you cant use FC success as clear guide in ENG anymore.

he isn't someone who just comes in and rips through the tail. He's also more economical than Lewis.

Am what proof do you have that Lewis just you to "come in & rip through the tail"?. Thats news to me..

Secondly is highly debatable who is more econical by "county standards". Based on what i've seen of both its about the same thing.

Davies is a miles better FC/Test bowler than Lewis. Therefore he is a miles better *bowler* than Lewis.

He has better FC record, thats it - but that doesn't make him a FC bowler than Lewis at all for reasons stated above. They are very comparable as FC bowlers.

Both Lewis & Davies chances of being a consistent test success outside extremely bowler friendly conditions that they tended to prosper in FC cricket @ CLS & TB respectively are/where non existant, if they bowl on flat decks. So its useless to consider either of them close the "test standard".

 

[aussie]

Lewis shouldn't have played his last ODI but he should've gotten into the ODI picture a while before he did. He was a good OD bowler between 1999 and 2006, but has not been from 2007 onwards.

Indeed, he really should have gone to the 07 WC.

As for Tests it's a downright disgrace that the likes of Mahmood and Plunkett were preferred to him but I'm certainly far from sure that he'd have been successful at Test level. He, unlike some who got it, deserved the chance to try however.

It depends a bowler like Lewis was only ever going to be effective on a greentop thats why he was picked on greentop in 2006 vs SRI. He would have been pretty ineffective on flat decks & even more useless than Mahmood on plunks given the amount of roads that where present in 2000s era.

 

[GIMH]

Hey aussie, Gary Jones who used to play footy for my beloved whites, he played everywhere but in goal. Guess that makes him better than Cristian Ronaldo as he's certainly more versatile.

 

[GIMH]

Indeed, he really should have gone to the 07 WC.

.

He did go to the 07 WC. He went home for personal reasons so Broad replaced him.

 

[aussie]

He did go to the 07 WC. He went home for personal reasons so Broad replaced him.

My mistake, meant he should played more games in 07 WC. But i guess once could argue him being "medium pace trundler" played againts him given the selectors may have thought on those flat wickets/small grounds in the caribbean he would have been smoked. Added to fact that Plunks had just basically fluked us a tri-series victory in AUS & was in form.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, that series in Australia is pretty much the only time I can remember seeing Plunkett bowl well from the top of my head

 

[Furball]

As i keep saying & this is something many chose not to accept. FC success in ENG doesn't = international success. The sooner people accept or begin to believe this to be true not because i say it - but because how the standard of CC cricket has declined since the 70s - the better.

You've used this argument before and once again I'll ask you to point out where anyone has said Davies will be a massive success at Test level.

The argument I'm using is that I'd back Davies to be more successful than guys like Bresnan and Mahmood because of his impressive First Class record. He might prove not to be very successful. But no one is arguing that his First Class record will instantly translate to Test success.

 

[Richard]

It depends a bowler like Lewis was only ever going to be effective on a greentop thats why he was picked on greentop in 2006 vs SRI. He would have been pretty ineffective on flat decks & even more useless than Mahmood on plunks given the amount of roads that where present in 2000s era.

That Trent Bridge 2006 deck was far from a greentop - in fact it turned-out to be something not far from a dustbowl. However, Lewis certainly isn't the type of bowler who needs a greentop to be effective - rather he's the type who needs the right sort of ball. Lewis is and always has been much more a swing than seam bowler. Of course he barely got the ball off the straight all through his debut Test, he bowled awfully, but had he gotten more of a chance he might've done better. No-one will ever know.

 

[Richard]

Yeah, that series in Australia is pretty much the only time I can remember seeing Plunkett bowl well from the top of my head

Bowled penetratively in the second final (still got smashed, just swung the Aussie top-order out while he was being smashed) more like. He got three-fors in two of the previous three matches as well but didn't remotely deserve either of them, he just came back at the right stage of the game and got gifted gimme wickets.

Make no mistake, Plunkett did make a contribution to the freak CB Series 2006/07 victory but it wasn't quite as substantial as some have made-out.

 

[Furball]

His ball to get rid of Gilchrist just after a rain break was a beaut. Swung a mile.

 

[Richard]

That was in said second final. And UIMM each other other couple of balls which he took wickets with were similar.

The rain being around and the time of day made conditions absolutely perfect for bowling swing and he cashed-in, but it's about the only thing he's done of any note in his entire ODI career. Almost every other spell has been roundly crap.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

He was younger then though and has gone away and improved.he may not be up to it now but deserves a chance so we can find out once and for all.

 

[Richard]

Personally I rate that knock of Sehwag's on debut as one of his best TBH. I reckon that if he'd continued to play as he appeared to have played up to that point he'd have had a great deal of success as a Test middle-order batsman had bowling standards remained and pitches not flattened-out - ie if things had been as they were up to 2000/01.

 

[sasnoz]

Its ashame curlty wasnt around to sought out sehwag in the 00's just like he soughted out hayden in the 90's

 

[aussie]

You've used this argument before and once again I'll ask you to point out where anyone has said Davies will be a massive success at Test level.

No one technically. But the intial reaction to his call-up to the SA tour was held no pushback, all excitement & appreciation that he has gotten a call up. Which IMO is disappoiting & a sad day for English cricket given that as i've said before medium pacers like him are a dead breed in international cricket & if he is the best of our back-up ATM. Its horrible.

The argument I'm using is that I'd back Davies to be more successful than guys like Bresnan and Mahmood because of his impressive First Class record. He might prove not to be very successful. But no one is arguing that his First Class record will instantly translate to Test success.

As i always say i believe his FC record to be a gross abberation based on seeing him bowl. I dont believe Davies or Bresnan would be test quality anyway so i would hope neither gets a chance. Thats why i'm very anxious for us to get Boyd Rankin & hopefully for Tremlett to recover this coming year..