Why were Waqar Younis & Azhar Mahmood punished?

[silentstriker]

It does rather! And since Sachin's ban was overturned on appeal, it sounds as though the right decision was taken in Jimmy's case

He was found guilty and fined.

 

[Sanz]

But the idea that one team in particular (eg Pakistan re ball tampering) is systematically unfairly targeted is just pure BS in my opinion.

Well In my opinion your opinion is Full of BS.

Ofcourse Pakistanis are unfairly targeted (on Ball Tampering issue) because

a. They were the first ones and only ones to practice this art for years

b. They have been successful (esp against the English) and others are not as much.

 

[zaremba]

Ofcourse Pakistanis are unfairly targeted (on Ball Tampering issue) because

a. They were the first ones and only ones to practice this art for years

b. They have been successful (esp against the English) and others are not as much.

Not sure you fully appreciate the irony of what you've written at point (a), but hey.

Anyway how do you explain why was no action taken against them in 1992? Yes on that occasion they had terrific success against England. And yes they tampered with the ball (have you watched the footage I posted earlier today showing Wasim, Waqar and Aaqib gouging the ball on that tour?). What was the official response? Nothing. Zip. Zero. Nada. Other than to sweep the whole thing under the carpet. And when umpire Don Oslear blew the whistle on the ball-tampering, he was sacked by the TCCB. How do you explain that in the context of the English-led conspiracy against the Pakistanis?

By the way since you seem keen to misunderstand or misrepresent what I and others are saying, I should explain to you once again that I'm not claiming that English players haven't ball-tampered (I have expressly acknowledged in this thread that they have). My point is that the Great Racist Anti-Pakistan conspiracy is nonsense. They have cheated, like others, and from time to time they have been punished for it.

 

[zaremba]

He was found guilty and fined.

Outrageous

 

[zaremba]

Oh look who is back with usual Bull****. Yes Pakistanis have gotten away and others have not ?

What was the name of the English Captain...Michael Artherton....

The dirt in the pocket affair | Cricket Features | Columns | Cricinfo.com

Before embarrassing yourself you might in future want to read the post you're responding to. Re-read Uppercut's post. Note the last little word he uses.

Pakistani bowlers have got away with this sort of thing before too.

 

[Burgey]

Don't play the poster guys, play the topic. He raises a good point, why wasn't Anderson punished?

Vaughan also accused the world governing body of double-standards, saying there would have been a furore if, for example, Pakistan had been involved.

"If Shoaib Akhtar or Mohammad Asif had been pictured using their fingers on the ball, there would have been uproar."

Can't help but agree with Vaughan here, and commend him on saying it.

The ball would have failed a WADA test tbh

Haven't seen the Eng-SA stuff as I don't have pay TV where I am atm, but it seems odd to me that in this day and age any player who wanted to clean the ball legally wouldn't take it to the umpire and show them.

I haven't read this while thread either, but sincerely hope someone has mentioned Murray Mints in 2005. If they haven't, consider it now done.

 

[zaremba]

sincerely hope someone has mentioned Murray Mints in 2005. If they haven't, consider it now done.

Rather underhand of you to bring that in, mate.

 

[Burgey]

Could you please share the footage where you saw Tendulkar was found lifting the seam. I am yet to see it.

It's there on YouTube next to the footage which conclusively shows Michael Clarke catching Ganguly on the bounce in Sydney.

 

[Burgey]

Rather underhand of you to bring that in, mate.

There can be no other explanation for England's success in 05 other than ball tampering. It's completely incomprehensible that their team at that time could possibly have beaten that Australian team without resorting to cheating.

Jones? A bigger walking injury than Watto, suddenly bowls like Lillee (only slower and not as good), and later admitted to the tampering. Hoggard - a career of mediocrity suddenly turns around for one series. Even Harmison hit the pitch FFS. And Flintoff lasted a whole series, celebrated wickets in a way which would see any other player in the world censured and wasn't pissed for the whole summer. Even Giles took a wicket ffs, and Strauss, Trescothick and Pietersen scored some runs when it actually mattered.

Now, I grant you one or two of these things could be put down to coincidence, but for all of them to happen at the same time is itself conclusive proof that they were up to no good

Not so bad in 09, because we were even more ******** than you guys.

 

[zaremba]

There can be no other explanation for England's success in 05 other than ball tampering. It's completely incomprehensible that their team at that time could possibly have beaten that Australian team without resorting to cheating.

Jones? A bigger walking injury than Watto, suddenly bowls like Lillee (only slower and not as good), and later admitted to the tampering. Hoggard - a career of mediocrity suddenly turns around for one series. Even Harmison hit the pitch FFS. And Flintoff lasted a whole series, celebrated wickets in a way which would see any other player in the world censured and wasn't pissed for the whole summer. Even Giles took a wicket ffs, and Strauss, Trescothick and Pietersen scored some runs when it actually mattered.

Now, I grant you one or two of these things could be put down to coincidence, but for all of them to happen at the same time is itself conclusive proof that they were up to no good

Racist!

 

[Burgey]

Racist!

Yep. Next up I'm going to pen a KFC ad

 

[zaremba]

 

[Sanz]

Before embarrassing yourself you might in future want to read the post you're responding to. Re-read Uppercut's post. Note the last little word he uses.

I read it very well. Any reason why single out Pakistanis alone when everyone has been getting away with it then.

That said, Pakistanis aren't getting away with it now, The English still are as evident in Anderson and Bell case. What is disturbing it that you accuse tendulkar of lifting the seam on the basis of hearsay and continue to say that Pakistanis got away with it and yet don't think that what Anderson did was wrong.

That is the double standards I find hard to accept. Do let me know If and when you see the Tendulkar footage of lifting the seam.

 

[silentstriker]

Outrageous

So initial ban, and fine, overturned to fine vs......


Nothing.


Yup, same standards for everyone. It's laughable ot think that Anderson would simply 'forget' to bring the ball to the umpire to clean it. He has played 175 international matches. And I'm not even sure if the rules are similar in county cricket, and if they are, it's even less of an excuse.

 

[Sanz]

Not sure you fully appreciate the irony of what you've written at point (a), but hey.

Anyway how do you explain why was no action taken against them in 1992

Because no action was taken against others for ball tampering, as was evident in Michael Artherton case few years later. (And before you go off, No Artherton wasn't fined for tampering with the ball)

It was only in 2000s that Ball Tamperers were started to get punished and since then we have seen some English players get away with it.

 

[Sanz]

Watching this video :- YouTube - Cheating pakistan cricketer

At About 4:15 the guy talks about "taking chunks of leather and making holes in the ball" is akin to cheating. Well then that is what Stuart Broad and Anderson did. Making holes and taking chunks of leather.

 

[Fusion]

I know you say that tongue in cheek but it is based in truth. If the (then) TCCB and ICC had not been so frightened of a Pakistani backlash, a controversy and drama then the situation could have been dealt with nearly 20 years ago.

Instead they got scared, wanted to sweep it under the carpet and avoid a confrontation. It was seen as not worth the hassle or the drama. Oh and by God, there would have been drama

Very soft decision but I cant say I wouldnt do the same myself. It was still the wrong choice.

Very Pro-Pakistan proccess.

Frightened of a Pakistani backlash? Pro-Pakistan process? Are you serious? The only perceived "power" that Pakistan has is through the backing of the BCCI. In '92, the BCCI, and hence the PCB, were nowhere in control of the ICC. The money that shifted the balance of power through the Indian television market and Twenty20 was years away from materializing. It's laughable to claim that the ICC were afraid of Pakistan.

As for this present incident, it is clearly a matter of double standards. It would be a HUGE deal if a Pakistani or a sub-continental player was involved. I think this type of attitude will slowly be corrected though. When more and more people (like Vaughn and Nasser Hussain) point out the double-standard, it is bound to make a difference.

 

[Sanz]

When more and more people (like Vaughn and Nasser Hussain) point out the double-standard, it is bound to make a difference.

Doubt it will change and that is because when members like Brumby make statements about him for what many believe is a very valid point. :-

"Aside from the current issue it's rather sad how quickly Mick has gone from test captain to niggardly curmudgeon. Shaping up to be a worthy successor to Messers Trueman, Close and Boycott. Thought he'd have some interesting things to say, but has gone straight to embittered rent-a-quote."

 

[Sanz]

And when umpire Don Oslear blew the whistle on the ball-tampering, he was sacked by the TCCB. How do you explain that in the context of the English-led conspiracy against the Pakistanis?.

You are just so ignorant. I suggest that you should go and read the archives of English Cricket and you may know why TCCB got rid of Mr. Oslear. IMO they did so because it would have brought into the attention the blatant ball tampering that was rampant in the county cricket those days. Please for your own sake, read before you say another word on the matter.

Here is a starter :-

Cricket: Underhand tricks were rife for years: For all the recent controversy, ball-tampering is by no means new. Hugh Bateson offers a brief history - Sport - The Independent

Cricket: Surrey fined for 'repeated' ball-tampering - Sport - The Independent

 

[Sanz]

Wisden - The Pakistanis in England, 1992

"....On the England side meanwhile, there was increasing concern about what was happening to the ball in the hands of Pakistan's two brilliant fast bowlers, Waqar Younis and Wasim Akram. These concerns, however, did not come into the open until after the series, when Allan Lamb, in an article for the Daily Mirror, made detailed allegations of ball-tampering.........Popular opinion was largely in favour of Lamb, if only for finding an excuse for England staging four spectacular collapses and thereby losing the series: at Lord's they lost their last six wickets for 42 runs in the first innings and 38 in the second; at Headingley their last eight for 28, and at The Oval their last seven for 25. Critical reaction, however, from former players of various countries, was more in support of the Pakistanis...."

No marks for guessing why the cricketers supported the Pakistanis.