Why were Waqar Younis & Azhar Mahmood punished?

[zaremba]

Just pointing out a big furor over a pretty big issue that was based on completely inconclusive evidence and no video footage with a ball that experts said looked like a normal ball of that age.

Oh I see. Well Billy Doctrove and his partner disagreed. Anyhow, two wrongs etc

 

[BoyBrumby]

Don't play the poster guys, play the topic. He raises a good point, why wasn't Anderson punished?

Vaughan also accused the world governing body of double-standards, saying there would have been a furore if, for example, Pakistan had been involved.

"If Shoaib Akhtar or Mohammad Asif had been pictured using their fingers on the ball, there would have been uproar."

Can't help but agree with Vaughan here, and commend him on saying it.

I can give a definitive answer, actually: because SA made no complaint. The rules, as they currently stand, require the opposing team to make a formal accusation.

Vaughan is entitled to his opinion, and he has already shown himself to be quite keen to make inflammatory comments out of left field about various matters (eg Jonathan Trott saying hello to Paul Harris after a Test match in 2008). On this, he's just got it wrong. When I first heard Vaughan talking about this on the radio, I thought the Anderson footage would be very ugly indeed. Then you actually watch it, and it's absolutely nothing.

Aside from the current issue it's rather sad how quickly Mick has gone from test captain to niggardly curmudgeon. Shaping up to be a worthy successor to Messers Trueman, Close and Boycott. Thought he'd have some interesting things to say, but has gone straight to embittered rent-a-quote.

 

[social]

I can give a definitive answer, actually: because SA made no complaint. The rules, as they currently stand, require the opposing team to make a formal accusation.



Aside from the current issue it's rather sad how quickly Mick has gone from test captain to niggardly curmudgeon. Shaping up to be a worthy successor to Messers Trueman, Close and Boycott. Thought he'd have some interesting things to say, but has gone straight to embittered rent-a-quote.

Dont think Vaughan really wanted to retire (was pushed more than anything), hasnt been given a comfy seat at Sky and was always a whinger anyway so his attitude doesnt surprise me but at least he's not sitting on the fence

 

[BoyBrumby]

Dont think Vaughan really wanted to retire (was pushed more than anything), hasnt been given a comfy seat at Sky and was always a whinger anyway so his attitude doesnt surprise me but at least he's not sitting on the fence

Not so sure he really was pushed. He was given a central contract at the end of our 2008 summer when he'd done v little on the field to justify such a show of faith.

Anyway, don't want to derail the thread too much, but was thinking he'd be more like Hussain in retirement. No truck with cant, but not a **** with it either.

 

[sasnoz]

yeah i remember vaughny whinging about graeme smith dobbing him into the match referee and how it cost him 25% of his match fee

 

[Sir Alex]

I don't think Tendulkar issue can be argued as a precedent in this case because even though Tendulkar was banned, the ban was subsequently overturned on appeal which meant he was not guilty. Anderson was moronic for not taking umpire's help for tearing off the loose flap on the ball. For that stupidity he deserved more atleast a warning from the authorities. But I don't think he intentionally wanted to tamper the ball for one moment, considering everything he is after all Jimmeh, one of the nicest and likeable characters.

 

[zaremba]

Anyway, don't want to derail the thread too much

Probably no bad thing TBH

was thinking he'd be more like Hussain in retirement. No truck with cant, but not a **** with it either.

Ditto. I suppose one thing that MPV has going for him is that he is very current, and so he has things of interest to say. But I agree, he does come across as a bit of a ****.

 

[Sir Alex]

And a genuine lol at people who say double standards don't exist in cricket. As silentstriker said a match referee himself came out with a clanger on that and recent incidents involving Watson and Broad only adds fuel to that allegation.

 

[zaremba]

I don't think there's a single person here who would say that you can't find instances of double standards in cricket. Of course you can. And the example cited by SS is a good one.

But the idea that one team in particular (eg Pakistan re ball tampering) is systematically unfairly targeted is just pure BS in my opinion. You can find players from all countries being treated leniently (eg, ironically, Pakistan in 1992) and of others being treated harshly.

What makes it worse is that, all too often, cheap allegations of racism are either explicit in the debate (see the OP in this thread) or form an unpleasant undercurrent.

 

[Sir Alex]

I don't think there's a single person here who would say that you can't find instances of double standards in cricket. Of course you can. And the example cited by SS is a good one.

But the idea that one team in particular (eg Pakistan re ball tampering) is systematically unfairly targeted is just pure BS in my opinion. You can find players from all countries being treated leniently (eg, ironically, Pakistan in 1992) and of others being treated harshly.

What makes it worse is that, all too often, cheap allegations of racism are either explicit in the debate (see the OP in this thread) or form an unpleasant undercurrent.

I agree fully with the first two paras of what you have said Zaremba. However when the subcontinental players somehow get punished heavily while their Anglo-Australian counterparts get off lightly for similar misdemeanor it is only obvious that the more impatient and temperamental of the lot would push the racism button immediately. It is more out of want of a good reason than 100% belief that the actions were as a result of racial prejudices.

 

[Uppercut]

I agree fully with the first two paras of what you have said Zaremba. However when the subcontinental players somehow get punished heavily while their Anglo-Australian counterparts get off lightly for similar misdemeanor it is only obvious that the more impatient and temperamental of the lot would push the racism button immediately. It is more out of want of a good reason than 100% belief that the actions were as a result of racial prejudices.

As zaremba pointed out though, you need a very selective memory to play the race card. Pakistani bowlers have got away with this sort of thing before too.

 

[Sir Alex]

As zaremba pointed out though, you need a very selective memory to play the race card. Pakistani bowlers have got away with this sort of thing before too.

They might have. As long as there is consistency in letting off or booking the culprits, no such outcry would be raced. The perception is that justice is not dispensed consistently across all nations and as long as that perception remains, racism will invariably be the first card to be drawn.

 

[GIMH]

I don't think Tendulkar issue can be argued as a precedent in this case because even though Tendulkar was banned, the ban was subsequently overturned on appeal which meant he was not guilty. Anderson was moronic for not taking umpire's help for tearing off the loose flap on the ball. For that stupidity he deserved more atleast a warning from the authorities. But I don't think he intentionally wanted to tamper the ball for one moment, considering everything he is after all Jimmeh, one of the nicest and likeable characters.

you forgot ***iest

 

[Sir Alex]

you forgot ***iest

I will reserve that for Swanneh and Mishy

 

[Uppercut]

They might have. As long as there is consistency in letting off or booking the culprits, no such outcry would be raced. The perception is that justice is not dispensed consistently across all nations and as long as that perception remains, racism will invariably be the first card to be drawn.

Yeah, it always is. That doesn't mean we can't call the people who draw the card out for being ****ing stupid though.

 

[Cruxdude]

Well clearly they do, because Tendulkar was banned in 2000 for lifting the seam whereas the Pakistani bowlers went unpunished in 1992. Pro-Pakistan bias, if you ask me.

The International Cricket Council on Wednesday made it clear that Sachin Tendulkar hadn't been found guilty of ball tampering by its match referee Mike Denness, whose action sparked off a bitter controversy.

The master batsman was handed down a suspended one-match ban and a fine by Denness during the second Test between India and South Africa at Port Elizabeth last week for not informing the umpires that he was removing grass from the seam of the ball, the ICC said.

"Sachin Tendulkar has not been found guilty of ball tampering. The punishment was for removing grass from the ball but not having informed the umpires, which is very different from ball tampering," ICC spokesman Jonathan Hamus said.

The belated clarification from the game's governing body comes amidst hectic efforts by those involved with the game to find a way out of the stand-off between the ICC and the Board of Control for Cricket in India.

Sachin wasn't guilty of lifting the seam.

 

[silentstriker]

Removing something and not informing the umpire? Sounds similar

 

[zaremba]

Removing something and not informing the umpire? Sounds similar

It does rather! And since Sachin's ban was overturned on appeal, it sounds as though the right decision was taken in Jimmy's case

 

[Sanz]

I can give a definitive answer, actually: because SA made no complaint. The rules, as they currently stand, require the opposing team to make a formal accusation.

In that case the rule itself is Bogus. That said atleast that is a fair argument as oppose to people saying that there is nothing wrong with what Anderson is doing and it is different from what tendulkar did.

Funny thing is some of those individuals have no clue about what Tendulkar did.

 

[Sanz]

As zaremba pointed out though, you need a very selective memory to play the race card. Pakistani bowlers have got away with this sort of thing before too.

Oh look who is back with usual Bull****. Yes Pakistanis have gotten away and others have not ?

What was the name of the English Captain...Michael Artherton....

The dirt in the pocket affair | Cricket Features | Columns | Cricinfo.com