Mitchell Johnson bowling over the wicket to right handed batsmen

[aussie]

It's hard to judge whether Asif is better than Johnson or not. They are incredibly different bowlers. Asif much more metronomic but less penetrative and Johnson far more penatrative but more erratic. Johnson is faster but does a bit less with the ball than Asif.

Honestly a fast bowling attack of Steyn, Johnson and Asif would be my pick in a World XI at the moment. Swann as the spinner.

Vettori still over him i'd say. A probable World XI ATM:

Smith
Sehwag
Ponting
Tendulkar
Kallis
Sangakkara
Dhoni/Haddin/Boucher
Vettori
Johnson
Steyn
Asif

 

[aussie]

Asif is notably better than Johnson IMO. More consistent, intelligent, accurate even though his reduced pace hampers him on flatter wickets.

This is where Johnson slightly better than Asif i'd say. On a flat wicket, Johnson extra pace is likely to get more batsmen out than Asif, although Johnson really cant reverse it.

If there is a touch of support in the wicket Asif can run through any batting lineup better than any bowler in the world.

So can Johnson as he showed in SA this year.

Overall Asif SLIGHTLY over Johnson still given he is more accuracy & consistency factor for me as well.

 

[Jarquis]

Vettori still over him i'd say. A probable World XI ATM:

Smith
Sehwag
Ponting
Tendulkar
Kallis
Sangakkara
Dhoni/Haddin/Boucher
Vettori
Johnson
Steyn
Asif

You really do not need Vettori at 8 in that line up, if you were after somebody to bat 7 then yeah maybe Vettori but Swann's a better spinner IMHO and he's great with the bat anyway if picking the better bowler wasn't enough to justify it.

 

[Jarquis]

So can Johnson as he showed in SA this year.

Overall Asif SLIGHTLY over Johnson still given he is more accuracy & consistency factor for me as well.

How can they both do it better One of them does it better than the other, that's the whole point of being the best in the world at something.

 

[tooextracool]

Firstly I'm no fast bowling or batting expert, so spare me from the lions please

The reason for the thread is that it is interesting watching Johnson bowl over the wicket to right handed batsmen in the recent Test series against Pakistan, and he gets a lot of them out caught behind, and often playing at balls that probably in hindsight they could of left alone. But I want to know how much of it is really good unplayable wicket taking bowling or bad batting technique, and one Johnson has been able to find flaws in and take advantage of.

It was shown on Ch 9 that Johnson gets really close to the stumps, and with his action, he pushes the ball across the line of off stump and drawing batsmen into a defensive shot and they end up nicking the ball behind. On the replays it shows that the batsman could of left the ball since it was going past off stump.

Technique?

After seeing the the replays and the Ch 9 hawkeye, and from where were a right handed batsman would stand, and even picturing it several times in my head, I can see why a batsman would be drawn forward to play a shot they probably shouldn't play. Then again this also tells me they don't know where their off stump is. It also looks as though the batsmen look square on in their stance, or to explain it better, as if they are facing a right arm bowler bowling over the wicket, and I recall when for instance when Michael Vaughan went on his golden run scoring spree in 2002 against India and Sri Lanka, he face quite a few left arm bowlers, and he had opened up his stance a lot more, and was able to score a lot of runs. It should be noted though, that none of the bowlers that Vaughan faced, were what I would call 'shock' bowlers like Johnson is, nor were they as quick or got as close to the stumps as Johnson does.

FTR Vaughan faced: Vaas, Zoysa, Perera (you know, the one that has a very dodgy action), Zaheer Khan, and Nehra.

Just want to know what other people thought. For me it is a combination of good bowling as well as poor batting.

I've said this before and I will say it again, Johnson gets a ridiculous number of wickets through poor batting rather than good bowling. He is a rather one dimensional bowler and whilst I understand that there are plenty of right hand batsmen out there who struggle with just the pure novelty factor (left hander bowling at 150mph and getting the ball to leave the batsmen), I cant quite see how I can rate him highly because of that.

My personal opinion is that
a) batsmen will get better as they play him more
b) he will struggle to take wickets on slower wickets away from home, because he really wont be beating very many batsmen by bowling wide of the off stump (this is also why he struggled in England).

 

[Manee]

Just want to know what other people thought. For me it is a combination of good bowling as well as poor batting.

It is hard to say. I'm unsure, how but he genuinely seems to swing the ball away from the right handed batsman with his low arm action. It sounds absurd because of the seam position and the common view is that it is going with the angle but I disagree, from what I have seen. If this is swing, rather than an angle, then it can make it near impossible to judge the actual line of the delivery.

Johnson's also got the ability to seam it back onto the wickets or swing it towards them; and that makes batsmen even less comfortable about leaving the ball.

Indeed. The odd time that he does move a ball back into the right hander, he is damn near unplayable - top batsmen honestly look like tailenders when faced with a Johnson inswinger. Wouldn't attribute the 'uncomfortable-ness' of batsmen to this delivery as they never seem to expect or be prepared for it, and it is extremely rare.

I've only ever seen Johnson once swing the ball consistently (more than 1 odd ball a spell) and that was in South Africa...and even then it wasn't really consistent. If I was a right hand batsman i'd play him as a left arm in-swing bowler (so swinging away to a righty) as pretty much everything is going to go across them. Johnson is a bowler who gets A LOT of his wickets through poor batting, rather than good deliveries, though I suppose he must be doing something right to induce those shots.

Conventional in-swing bowlers tend to have a high arm action and front on action and push the ball across the batsman using the same hand that they bowl with; for example, Makhaya Ntini. I am not disputing that such bowlers can seam, or very occasionally swing the ball away from the right hander. However, I think that it is unusual for a slinging, side on bowler with a closed off foot position (rather than an open position) and a low arm to swing the ball away, I think that this is the cause of the difficulty in judging line that batsmen face.

yeah i think asif is better,but what happened to sidebottom he was better than johnson in his purple patch

I don't know what happened to Sidebottom, I think that his treatment by England selectors has been abhorrent and a clear sign of incompetance. He should be the first bowler on the team sheet.

Opening the stance to such a bowler will eliminate the need to play round the front pad. (As Vaughn in recent tour and Atherton in previous tour found out against Vaas) And the front pad will be pushed forward out of the line of middle and leg.

For left armers who push it across, opening the stance too much will make it difficult to play the away going ball. And I have seen batsmen batting with close stance against left armers and doing well. But these are gifted stroke makers of the off side.

I have faced a few batsmen who have seen me as a left arm bowler and open up their stance, even though I tend to swing it away (or used to). They tend to play me quite well, but I think that is more a tribute to them being better batsmen as they are the ones who think about their game, if even occasionally mistaken.

Dont think Johnson generally would make sense bowling all-round the wicket to right handers in most conditons since he is not a swing bowler. But if its swinging he could try it.

I'm unsure whether it is reverse swing or what, but he seems to get the ball to move away from the right hander from around the wicket - can cause some difficulties and often has tailenders in much strife.

 

[Jarquis]

SiBo was picked whilst unfit, performed dreadfully, was dropped and hasn't made it back into the side since AFAI can see.

 

[Manee]

SiBo was picked whilst unfit, performed dreadfully, was dropped and hasn't made it back into the side since AFAI can see.

Indeed, abhorrent treatment. When fully fit, he should have been straight into the side.

 

[Jarquis]

Indeed, abhorrent treatment. When fully fit, he should have been straight into the side.

Yeah, I'm a massive Sidebottom fan. Think I wanted him in the side ahead of Broad at the beginning of the Ashes
Can't see how you'd get him into the team right now though.

 

[tooextracool]

Has Sidebottom ever been 'fully fit' in the last 1.5 years is the question. He's been fully fit for about 1 hour of the day, which is why the only time he did anything of note during that period was in the t20 world cup. The question is, why is he even in the squad? He would be better off playing for the performance squad and getting match fit.

 

[Furball]

Indeed, abhorrent treatment. When fully fit, he should have been straight into the side.

Hasn't been fully fit for what seems like years.

 

[Manee]

Hasn't been fully fit for what seems like years.

I disagree, he got through the English summer without too much difficulty and was England's most successful bowler here.

 

[NUFAN]

Not many batsman in World Cricket like to leave the ball that often. The fact that Johnson does have a ball that doesn't maintain the usual line where he gets batsman out LBW, makes him all that much harder.

I hate when Mitch starts bowling around the wicket though to a right hander.

 

[Migara]

Vettori still over him i'd say. A probable World XI ATM:

Smith
Sehwag
Ponting
Tendulkar
Kallis
Sangakkara
Dhoni/Haddin/Boucher
Vettori
Johnson
Steyn
Asif

Harbhajan will be some way ahead of Swann ATM. And Sangakkara has done better than Ponting in last year to be batting at #3

 

[SJS]

Not even the Zaheer of seven years ago?

I am almost sure seven years ago Zaheer was a better bowler than Johnson (wherever Mitchell might have been bowling then)

 

[stephen]

I hate when Mitch starts bowling around the wicket though to a right hander.

This. Never looks like taking a wicket.

 

[Johnners]

Dinesh Ramdin disagrees

 

[Sir Alex]

I've said this before and I will say it again, Johnson gets a ridiculous number of wickets through poor batting rather than good bowling. He is a rather one dimensional bowler and whilst I understand that there are plenty of right hand batsmen out there who struggle with just the pure novelty factor (left hander bowling at 150mph and getting the ball to leave the batsmen), I cant quite see how I can rate him highly because of that.

My personal opinion is that
a) batsmen will get better as they play him more
b) he will struggle to take wickets on slower wickets away from home, because he really wont be beating very many batsmen by bowling wide of the off stump (this is also why he struggled in England).

Fully agree with this. This was evident even in the Indian tour as well. In fact they had him figured out in the tour to Australia itself.

 

[Top_Cat]

Fully agree with this. This was evident even in the Indian tour as well. In fact they had him figured out in the tour to Australia itself.

yet he was still was the leading wicket taker in both series. Considering the lack of experienced support, reckon he did fairly well.

 

[Johnners]

Worth noting that he's comfortably a better bowler now, than when India last toured in what was only Johnsons second test series.