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Mitchell Johnson bowling over the wicket to right handed batsmen

Craig

World Traveller
Firstly I'm no fast bowling or batting expert, so spare me from the lions please :p

The reason for the thread is that it is interesting watching Johnson bowl over the wicket to right handed batsmen in the recent Test series against Pakistan, and he gets a lot of them out caught behind, and often playing at balls that probably in hindsight they could of left alone. But I want to know how much of it is really good unplayable wicket taking bowling or bad batting technique, and one Johnson has been able to find flaws in and take advantage of.

It was shown on Ch 9 that Johnson gets really close to the stumps, and with his action, he pushes the ball across the line of off stump and drawing batsmen into a defensive shot and they end up nicking the ball behind. On the replays it shows that the batsman could of left the ball since it was going past off stump.

Technique?

After seeing the the replays and the Ch 9 hawkeye, and from where were a right handed batsman would stand, and even picturing it several times in my head, I can see why a batsman would be drawn forward to play a shot they probably shouldn't play. Then again this also tells me they don't know where their off stump is. It also looks as though the batsmen look square on in their stance, or to explain it better, as if they are facing a right arm bowler bowling over the wicket, and I recall when for instance when Michael Vaughan went on his golden run scoring spree in 2002 against India and Sri Lanka, he face quite a few left arm bowlers, and he had opened up his stance a lot more, and was able to score a lot of runs. It should be noted though, that none of the bowlers that Vaughan faced, were what I would call 'shock' bowlers like Johnson is, nor were they as quick or got as close to the stumps as Johnson does.

FTR Vaughan faced: Vaas, Zoysa, Perera (you know, the one that has a very dodgy action), Zaheer Khan, and Nehra.

Just want to know what other people thought. For me it is a combination of good bowling as well as poor batting.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Johnson's also got the ability to seam it back onto the wickets or swing it towards them; and that makes batsmen even less comfortable about leaving the ball.
 

Craig

World Traveller
Also with Johnson you don't what he will do next. One moment the ball barely lands on the cutting strip, the next ball the batsman is out or is in hospital.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Also, he's got a pretty good brain. I recall in the Ashes - I can't remember for the life of me who it was - where in one over he set the batsman up perfectly, very McGrath-like. That's another thing; he knows his strengths. He doesn't just tumble the ball down as fast as possible.
 

pasag

RTDAS
Johnson's also got the ability to seam it back onto the wickets or swing it towards them; and that makes batsmen even less comfortable about leaving the ball.
Not sure how much control he has over that ability though. Seems to come and go.
 

gwo

U19 Debutant
That doesn't really matter from the perspective of a RHB.

If he brings it in sometimes it puts on on edge.
 

Polo23

International Debutant
I've only ever seen Johnson once swing the ball consistently (more than 1 odd ball a spell) and that was in South Africa...and even then it wasn't really consistent. If I was a right hand batsman i'd play him as a left arm in-swing bowler (so swinging away to a righty) as pretty much everything is going to go across them. Johnson is a bowler who gets A LOT of his wickets through poor batting, rather than good deliveries, though I suppose he must be doing something right to induce those shots.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Firstly I'm no fast bowling or batting expert, so spare me from the lions please :p

The reason for the thread is that it is interesting watching Johnson bowl over the wicket to right handed batsmen in the recent Test series against Pakistan, and he gets a lot of them out caught behind, and often playing at balls that probably in hindsight they could of left alone. But I want to know how much of it is really good unplayable wicket taking bowling or bad batting technique, and one Johnson has been able to find flaws in and take advantage of.

It was shown on Ch 9 that Johnson gets really close to the stumps, and with his action, he pushes the ball across the line of off stump and drawing batsmen into a defensive shot and they end up nicking the ball behind. On the replays it shows that the batsman could of left the ball since it was going past off stump.

Technique?

After seeing the the replays and the Ch 9 hawkeye, and from where were a right handed batsman would stand, and even picturing it several times in my head, I can see why a batsman would be drawn forward to play a shot they probably shouldn't play. Then again this also tells me they don't know where their off stump is. It also looks as though the batsmen look square on in their stance, or to explain it better, as if they are facing a right arm bowler bowling over the wicket, and I recall when for instance when Michael Vaughan went on his golden run scoring spree in 2002 against India and Sri Lanka, he face quite a few left arm bowlers, and he had opened up his stance a lot more, and was able to score a lot of runs. It should be noted though, that none of the bowlers that Vaughan faced, were what I would call 'shock' bowlers like Johnson is, nor were they as quick or got as close to the stumps as Johnson does.

FTR Vaughan faced: Vaas, Zoysa, Perera (you know, the one that has a very dodgy action), Zaheer Khan, and Nehra.

Just want to know what other people thought. For me it is a combination of good bowling as well as poor batting.
TBF, Johnson is a class above all of those bowlers except Vaas (who was slower and therefore gave the batsmen more time to adjust) AND Vaughan, at the time, was a class above many of the batsmen he is putting to the sword

Personally, I think it's the law of averages with Johnson - put enough balls in the right place at high speed and you'll get wickets

It's irrelevant that he also bowls a heap of ****e in between
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
I'm probably (in fact certainly) influenced by their respective efforts versus England, but wouldn't have Zaheer that far behind Johnson. Not a class below anyway.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Steyn
daylight
Johnson
Daylight
others....
Asif is notably better than Johnson IMO. More consistent, intelligent, accurate even though his reduced pace hampers him on flatter wickets. If there is a touch of support in the wicket Asif can run through any batting lineup better than any bowler in the world.
 

sasnoz

Banned
yeah i think asif is better,but what happened to sidebottom he was better than johnson in his purple patch
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It's hard to judge whether Asif is better than Johnson or not. They are incredibly different bowlers. Asif much more metronomic but less penetrative and Johnson far more penatrative but more erratic. Johnson is faster but does a bit less with the ball than Asif.

Honestly a fast bowling attack of Steyn, Johnson and Asif would be my pick in a World XI at the moment. Swann as the spinner.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
It's hard to judge whether Asif is better than Johnson or not. They are incredibly different bowlers. Asif much more metronomic but less penetrative and Johnson far more penatrative but more erratic. Johnson is faster but does a bit less with the ball than Asif.

Honestly a fast bowling attack of Steyn, Johnson and Asif would be my pick in a World XI at the moment. Swann as the spinner.
You ****ing traitor. :laugh:
 

Migara

International Coach
FTR Vaughan faced: Vaas, Zoysa, Perera (you know, the one that has a very dodgy action), Zaheer Khan, and Nehra
I thought Vaas was different from all others becasue he swung it in sharply most of the time. Opening the stance to such a bowler will eliminate the need to play round the front pad. (As Vaughn in recent tour and Atherton in previous tour found out against Vaas) And the front pad will be pushed forward out of the line of middle and leg.

For left armers who push it across, opening the stance too much will make it difficult to play the away going ball. And I have seen batsmen batting with close stance against left armers and doing well. But these are gifted stroke makers of the off side.
 

NasserFan207

International Vice-Captain
The Pakistani batsman made Johnson look good through reckless and somewhat clueless batting. Of course they aren't used to his pace and bounce either (enhanced by the foreign australian pitch). To deal with a bowler like Johnson (fast left arm over) you need the bat coming straight back at the ball, and stand a little way outside offstump. Changing the direction of the ball with a cover drive is difficult due to the angle, and should be avoided for the most part.
 
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aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Dont think Johnson generally would make sense bowling all-round the wicket to right handers in most conditons since he is not a swing bowler. But if its swinging he could try it.
 

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