Pietersen V Smith

[Quaggas]

I feel compelled to mention the fact that Pietersen performs above his overall average against Australia whereas Smith drops off hugely. You're talking pressure, they are pretty much the biggest games either of those have played in, no?

Half of those were as a brash captain of a team that was over-hyped. Also, if you discard the 09 Sydney match, he averages 38 with a se of 9.

The pressure of captaincy surely adds another plus in Smith's column?

Edit: Over-hyped given the opposition in 05/06

 

[aussie]

Yeah, would agree that he's just not himself. Is it the injury, is it still a hangover from the captaincy issue (you could argue he's not quite been himself since then, only one of the innings I highlighted came following that) or is it just a loss of form, after all every player suffers them at some point, right?

Been trying to work out whether or not we should take him to Bangladesh.

Would say the injury which has resulted in a bit of loss of form.

Taking him to BANG depends on how he goes in JO'Burg. If he scores a hundred there, i'd be tempted to leave him out. If not i'd say send him let him go to get some runs, even if the quality of bowling will be gash.

 

[kingkallis]

Smith >>>>> Pietersen

End of the story!

 

[TT Boy]

I would take him to Bangladesh, as if he doesn't go he will just play in the IPL instead. Missed a lot of cricket in 2009, he doesn't need or deserves a break.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Been thinking about this a bit again, and really it is difficult to split them as batsmen, you can put a pretty good argument either way. So I've gone for Smith for non-batting reasons, in that he's managed about 5 years in one of the more difficult captaincies in the world and he seems to be both successful and well-respected by his team. He comes across as a real leader, and I think that's a big plus for him.

But it's not a leadership/captaincy debate.

 

[Furball]

I think Pietersen's worse for curtailing his natural instincts and playing "responsibly."

It's particularly affected his ODI form, he's been rubbish since the World Cup.

 

[Uppercut]

But it's not a leadership/captaincy debate.

The question was "who would you rather have in your side?" How isn't it?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The question was "who would you rather have in your side?" How isn't it?

The first post is squarely an introduction/invitation to a debate on batsmanship.

 

[grecian]

The question was "who would you rather have in your side?" How isn't it?

Either way Smith is a better batsman, bowler, captain and even (the one that's debatable) fielder.

(who is Bret BTW)

 

[Uppercut]

Either way Smith is a better batsman, bowler, captain and even (the one that's debatable) fielder.

I'd say fielder is the least debateable tbh. Slip catchers>>>all other fielders.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

(who is Bret BTW)

Hopefully an FotC reference.

 

[grecian]

I'd say fielder is the least debateable tbh. Slip catchers>>>all other fielders.

Yeah, but he's a chubster. So I'm marking him down for not being able to move

 

[Quaggas]

The first post is squarely an introduction/invitation to a debate on batsmanship.

Added responsibility makes batting well harder. So, ceteris paribus, the guy w/ the captaincy takes it.

 

[four_or_six]

But it's not a leadership/captaincy debate.

I took it as mainly batting, but as it was 'who do you want in your side' I think it's not just batting skills. I like Smith's leadership, by that I don't just mean captaincy skills on the field but also his leadership of the batting lineup.

 

[four_or_six]

Either way Smith is a better batsman, bowler, captain and even (the one that's debatable) fielder.

(who is Bret BTW)

KP definitely a better bowler.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Added responsibility makes batting well harder. So, ceteris paribus, the guy w/ the captaincy takes it.

That's not fair though. Some players, fine batsmen as they are, simply are not cut out for captaincy. Strauss is a much better captain than Chanderpaul, but I wouldn't necessarily say he's a better batsman.

What if one of them never had the opportunity to lead his country? Or, in Pietersen's case, a proper opportunity to do so. It's ridiculous to say he's a lesser batsman because of something out of his hands. Just as ridiculous to criticise batting ability based on captaincy ability.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I took it as mainly batting, but as it was 'who do you want in your side' I think it's not just batting skills. I like Smith's leadership, by that I don't just mean captaincy skills on the field but also his leadership of the batting lineup.

Pietersen didn't have the opportunity that Smith has had to lead his side though. And if you want to bring up Pietersen's average leadership when he was captain, I'd suggest that Graeme Smith was far from faultless for a lot of his early leadership.

 

[aussie]

I think Pietersen's worse for curtailing his natural instincts and playing "responsibly."

It's particularly affected his ODI form, he's been rubbish since the World Cup.

An average of 33 since the WC is not rubbish. He has just been very patchy in ODIs since the then for reasons your correctly stated here..

 

[GIMH]

Half of those were as a brash captain of a team that was over-hyped. Also, if you discard the 09 Sydney match, he averages 38 with a se of 9.

The pressure of captaincy surely adds another plus in Smith's column?

Edit: Over-hyped given the opposition in 05/06

Well if we discard Sydney 09, then we should discard last year's Ashes so KP's averages against Australia rises slightly.

And half of his innings against Australia, therefore, were as a brash debutant with zero Test experience against the best team in the world.

Oh, and if we're talking captaincy, KP averages 52.4 as captain

 

[Quaggas]

That's not fair though. Some players, fine batsmen as they are, simply are not cut out for captaincy. Strauss is a much better captain than Chanderpaul, but I wouldn't necessarily say he's a better batsman.

What if one of them never had the opportunity to lead his country? Or, in Pietersen's case, a proper opportunity to do so. It's ridiculous to say he's a lesser batsman because of something out of his hands. Just as ridiculous to criticise batting ability based on captaincy ability.

Hence "all else equal." Would Smith's batting improve w/o the burden of captaincy?