*Official* England in South Africa

[Stapel]

All true. However, I suppose it's happened because Broad was actually batting very well at 8 for a while before Swann was picked and it would have seemed odd to demote him to number 9. Given the talk of Broad looking like becoming a genuine number 7, they'd have been slaughtered for moving him down the order at that point. Plus Swann was an unknown quantity at this level. However, that was then.

I guess adding an extra bowler is the best way to go, if you have Swann, Broad, (Sidebottom) & Anderson. They are all better batsmen than Cook & Bell at the moment.

 

[GIMH]

Not sure it really matters which way round Broad and Swann bat but would agree that Swann is the better of the two at the minute. Can see him scoring a ton sometime this year.

 

[Uppercut]

Simple First class & Test figures show Swann is a slightly better batsman. However, it is my impression that Swann is more of a slogger and has a higher strike rate, whereas Broad can actually adapt his game to the situation a bit more. It's not going to make a hell of a lot of a difference to swap the two imho.

Didn't the two of them put up a nice partnership in last summer's lost Ashes test at Leeds?

Aesthetics? Whether or not you think Broad looks he can adapt to the game situation, he's never shown that he can. Swann is vastly more experienced, he's batted in far more roles and situations in county cricket than Broad has.

His record is "slightly" better in that his test and FC averages are slightly higher, but his record is actually miles better. 4 centuries and 35 fifties to Broad's no centuries 11 fifties. It's fair enough that they want Broad's batting to mature and batting at number 9 that probably won't happen. But it's got to the stage, taking current form into account, where you're seriously weakening the team's potential to score runs by having Swann and 9 and Broad at 8. Jimmy Anderson won't stick around as long as he did at Centurion every game.

 

[GIMH]

Aesthetics? Whether or not you think Broad looks he can adapt to the game situation, he's never shown that he can. Swann is vastly more experienced, he's batted in far more roles and situations in county cricket than Broad has.

His record is "slightly" better in that his test and FC averages are slightly higher, but his record is actually miles better. 4 centuries and 35 fifties to Broad's no centuries 11 fifties. It's fair enough that they want Broad's batting to mature and batting at number 9 that probably won't happen. But it's got to the stage, taking current form into account, where you're seriously weakening the team's potential to score runs by having Swann and 9 and Broad at 8. Jimmy Anderson won't stick around as long as he did at Centurion every game.

Completely disagree. Broad has shown he can adapt to game situations, he wouldn't be averaging 30 from lower down the order if he hadn't. I don't think it's particularly fair to roll out the number of 50s and centuries that Swann has, given that he has about ten years moer experience. And as for 'seriously weakening' the team's potential, this is a huge overstatement. Broad has hung around with the middle order and those below him plenty in the past - there aren't many number eight batsmen I would pick ahead of him.

Of course, I would pick Swann to bat ahead of him but to pick it as some kind of crime against humanity is a bit silly - there isn't an awful lot to choose between them.

 

[grecian]

Completely disagree. Broad has shown he can adapt to game situations, he wouldn't be averaging 30 from lower down the order if he hadn't. I don't think it's particularly fair to roll out the number of 50s and centuries that Swann has, given that he has about ten years moer experience. And as for 'seriously weakening' the team's potential, this is a huge overstatement. Broad has hung around with the middle order and those below him plenty in the past - there aren't many number eight batsmen I would pick ahead of him.

Of course, I would pick Swann to bat ahead of him but to pick it as some kind of crime against humanity is a bit silly - there isn't an awful lot to choose between them.

Agree with this, and TBH Swannie scores so quickly I don't think it's that big an issue.

Anyway, it seems to be working ATM, and as a long-suffering England supporter, I'm loathe to change anything that actually seems to be effective.

 

[superkingdave]

Actually think the pace Swanneh scores his runs if one of the reasons he bats below Broad, more likely to make effective use of the time No.10 & 11 can last at the crease.

 

[Furball]

Both teams struggle a bit in the opening batting department.

Not really a suprise, South Africa is the hardest place in the world to open.

Ntini certain to play at Durban | Cricket News | South Africa v England 2009/10 | Cricinfo.com

England to win the 2nd Test then.

 

[aussie]

"It was terrific to see Friedel bowl that well," Smith said. "But the three guys who have had the job over the last period of time [Steyn, Ntini and Morne Morkel] have been really successful at it. Makhaya brings a lot of experience to our attack. He maybe didn't bowl as well as he would have liked in Centurion, but he's a guy I really support and he has been integral through my captaincy. So I really back him to come through and bowl well in this Test.

Haa that comment pretty much proves that Ntini's poor performances over the last year are being overlooked because of personal feelings, although i guess i see where Smith is coming from. De Wet definately should play & one of Ntini/Morkel should be facing the axe.

Ntini being backed although bowling poorly, brings back memories of what AUS did with Gillespie before he hit rock in the 05 Ashes. So there lies an opening for ENG, if Steyn isn't fit to try to really put pressure on Ntini.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Surprised he was so supporting of Morkel, I thought he'd been in and out of the side a lot because he'd never really made much of all the weapons he has - someone who would frustrate the captain.

 

[Stapel]

Haa that comment pretty much proves that Ntini is poor performances over the last year are being overlooked because of personal feelings, although i guess i see where Smith is coming from. De Wet definately should play & one of Ntini/Morkel should be facing the axe.

Ntini being backed although bowling poorly, brings back memories of what AUS did with Gillespie before he hit rock in the 05 Ashes. So there lies an opening for ENG, if Steyn isn't fit to try to really put pressure on Ntini.

Well I don't think it's that unlikely for Ntini to get his act together once more. Anyway, I am bit surprised not more arguement is given to axe Morkel for De Wet, if Steyn proves fit enough.

 

[Briony]

But surely if you make excuses for Ntini's form you do the same for Morkel's which wasn't that bad anyway. After Morkel was dropped for the Cape Town test against the Aussies the selectors made the observation that both bowlers had been inconsistent for some time. Morkel was axed but since his domestic form has been good. Ntini has continued to disappoint and has been on a downward spiral for eighteen months now.

 

[TT Boy]

Well I don't think it's that unlikely for Ntini to get his act together once more. Anyway, I am bit surprised not more arguement is given to axe Morkel for De Wet, if Steyn proves fit enough.

There was not much separating Morkel and Ntini at Centurion aside from Morne’s spell on the fourth day where he touched 150kph and bowled a beauty to get Strauss, both were very disappointing. I wouldn’t have either start the test series in India but Morne has to play at Durban and why drop a guy who has the opposition captain’s number?

Also, wouldn’t just write off de Wet’s chances of playing but in a four man pace quartet. Forecast for Durban isn’t great and it should be rain (and bad light) affected throughout the five days. If that is the case, South Africa should do what they did against the Windies two years ago and drop the spinner.

 

[TT Boy]

Forecast has actually improved markedly in the past 24 hours but still not great...

10 day Weather in Durban - weather.co.uk

 

[Woodster]

Hope the weather doesn't have too much of a say in the upcoming Test.

I think the Morkel selection is similar to England's perseverance with Steve Harmison. These guys have the tools, and offer the sides a little something different in terms of the pace and bounce they can get. Their inconsistency can lead to inevitable frustration from the skipper, management and supporters alike. Morkel bowled with pretty good pace at Centurion (Harmsion invariably bowled slower when not in rhythm), and as you say got Strauss with a beauty. If it's their day they can be destructive, how frequently that day comes along is one for the selectors.

 

[Briony]

Hope the weather doesn't have too much of a say in the upcoming Test.

I think the Morkel selection is similar to England's perseverance with Steve Harmison. These guys have the tools, and offer the sides a little something different in terms of the pace and bounce they can get. Their inconsistency can lead to inevitable frustration from the skipper, management and supporters alike. Morkel bowled with pretty good pace at Centurion (Harmsion invariably bowled slower when not in rhythm), and as you say got Strauss with a beauty. If it's their day they can be destructive, how frequently that day comes along is one for the selectors.

But has Ntini offered SA anything extra than Morkel over the past year or so? At least with him, waywardness and all, there is a possibility for destruction. Do people get the sense that Ntini is going to worry too many batsmen?

 

[Neil Pickup]

I really hope that SA retain Ntini. I just don't see him creating any consistent pressure or many magic balls.

 

[Pothas]

Aesthetics? Whether or not you think Broad looks he can adapt to the game situation, he's never shown that he can. Swann is vastly more experienced, he's batted in far more roles and situations in county cricket than Broad has.

His record is "slightly" better in that his test and FC averages are slightly higher, but his record is actually miles better. 4 centuries and 35 fifties to Broad's no centuries 11 fifties. It's fair enough that they want Broad's batting to mature and batting at number 9 that probably won't happen. But it's got to the stage, taking current form into account, where you're seriously weakening the team's potential to score runs by having Swann and 9 and Broad at 8. Jimmy Anderson won't stick around as long as he did at Centurion every game.

Jimmy normally bats at three anyway these days.

Think the thinking behind it is probably just that Broad 'looks' like a batsman and as you say they want him to develop, largely agree with other comments though that it does not make a huge difference, it really is one of England's greatest strengths at the moment.

 

[Uppercut]

But has Ntini offered SA anything extra than Morkel over the past year or so? At least with him, waywardness and all, there is a possibility for destruction. Do people get the sense that Ntini is going to worry too many batsmen?

Not really, but he has a history of pulling completely unexpected great performances out of the bag, so I'm just a little reluctant to write him off completely.

 

[superkingdave]

jimmeh!

 

[wpdavid]

Morning all, and bleated season's greetings.

Oh - and Jimmy's just got rid of Prince.