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*Official* English Football Season 2009-2010

GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Ikki said:
Probably 3. But yes, for the simple fact that Ronaldo was the best player in the world for probably 2 of those seasons. These are heights Beckham could never reach. Great player, but I put it to you like this:

If you had the two teams facing each other, one with Ronaldo now and Beckham at his peak, which team is stronger for you?
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Yeah, it's a fair argument, but the title of 'Premier League XI' is fairly vague in itself. If you look at the side that's been selected, nearly everyone there has about 7 or 8 years of Premier League brilliance behind them, so I guess it depends on what basis you are picking the team.

For example I wouldn't dream of making a case for Shevchenko, but he's arguably one of the greatest strikers to have appeared in the Prem. Just happened to be turd in the Prem itself. Slightly different to Ronaldo, but.
 
The Sean

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Whether Gerrard did what Keano/Vieira couldn't I don't know but I agree with Ikki about the level that Stevie G has been performing at for Liverpool for a long time now, pretty much this entire decade. I don't think I've ever seen a player score so many late, vital, spectacular goals for his team has Gerrard has - his ability to produce something special when his team needs it most is freakish.
 
GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
The Sean said:
Whether Gerrard did what Keano/Vieira couldn't I don't know but I agree with Ikki about the level that Stevie G has been performing at for Liverpool for a long time now, pretty much this entire decade. I don't think I've ever seen a player score so many late, vital, spectacular goals for his team has Gerrard has - his ability to produce something special when his team needs it most is freakish.
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He's, um, earned the odd late penalty for them as well :whistling
 
The Sean

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
GeraintIsMyHero said:
For example I wouldn't dream of making a case for Shevchenko, but he's arguably one of the greatest strikers to have appeared in the Prem. Just happened to be turd in the Prem itself. Slightly different to Ronaldo, but.
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Yeah a similar argument could be made for Weah or Gullit - two of the greatest players to ever appear in the Premier League, but certainly not all time great Premier League players. You have to go on what they achieved, or the quality they showed, in the League itself.
 
Ikki

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Uppercut said:
What did Gerrard do for his team that Vieira/Keane couldn't?
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Win matches/cups with players alongside them that didn't deserve to grace the same field. The way we won the FA cup and CL goes in huge part to Gerrard. Neither Vieira nor Keane could have done that IMO. Although having said that Vieira came pretty darn close in a certain FA cup featuring Liverpool and a little Mickey Owen.

You get my point; those two while chipping in here and there with goals and assists; were limited in the creative aspect of the game. Whereas Gerrard even playing deeper would drive the team forward with his ability to conjure up goals regularly out of nothing.
 
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Ikki

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
GeraintIsMyHero said:
Alas, he never played when they won the European Cup, due to suspension
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Even aside from that, the way Gerrard won it was well...amazing. Sure, football is a team game but that CL win is as much of a one-man-effort as you're going to get. Maradona-esque. From his last minute winner against Olympiacos to the final itself.
 
Uppercut

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Ikki said:
Win matches/cups with players alongside them that didn't deserve to grace the same field. The way we won the FA cup and CL goes in huge part to Gerrard. Neither Vieira nor Keane could have done that IMO. Although having said that Vieira came pretty darn close in a certain FA cup featuring Liverpool and a little Mickey Owen.

You get my point; those two while chipping in here and there with goals and assists; were limited in the creative aspect of the game. Whereas Gerrard even playing deeper would drive the team forward with his ability to conjure on goals regularly out of nothing.
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It's a fair point, but it's interesting that you think like that because to my mind Gerrard never having won a Premiership title counts against him somewhat. You take Vieira out of Arsenal and they're not a title-winning side anymore, we've seen that since he left. You take Keane out of United and they're not a title-winning side anymore, we saw that in '98. Those players were the difference between being the best and being one of the best for their teams. Gerrard, while it wasn't exactly his fault, could never quite manage to elevate Liverpool to the same level.
 
GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Yeah, I wasn't being entirely serious with my reply there obviously, but I don't think even the biggest Gerrard hater (Scaly?) could detract from what he did that season. Could Keane & Viera have dragged a team containing the players that that Liverpool side did through like that? I doubt it, that's why I'd always want Gerrard in a side like this.
 
Uppercut

Uppercut

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GeraintIsMyHero said:
Yeah, I wasn't being entirely serious with my reply there obviously, but I don't think even the biggest Gerrard hater (Scaly?) could detract from what he did that season. Could Keane & Viera have dragged a team containing the players that that Liverpool side did through like that? I doubt it, that's why I'd always want Gerrard in a side like this.
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Personally- and you'll find this with any sport- I'm inclined to go for players that were part of a successful team. Football's about winning.

More pedantically, Gerrard's ability to drag a crap team through a tournament wouldn't really feature in this XI :p
 
Ikki

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Uppercut said:
It's a fair point, but it's interesting that you think like that because to my mind Gerrard never having won a Premiership title counts against him somewhat. You take Vieira out of Arsenal and they're not a title-winning side anymore, we've seen that since he left. You take Keane out of United and they're not a title-winning side anymore, we saw that in '98. Those players were the difference between being the best and being one of the best for their teams. Gerrard, while it wasn't exactly his fault, could never quite manage to elevate Liverpool to the same level.
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Sure but Arsenal lost more than Vieira. In the space of a few years that winning team had a mass of new players with older players gone - look at the team that was even in the CL final and the one now; almost unrecognizable. As for Keane, you're forgetting he was there when Arsenal won back-to-back titles, and a few years after United has won 3 in a row.

I think Gerrard will always have something against him until he wins the league; but when I look back on the teams that he's played with, truthfully, until recently there wasn't one that could genuinely mount a season long challenge. IMO, you take Keane or Vieira out and put Gerrard in and they're winning titles. Ability-wise, there's nothing they could do that he couldn't IMO.

It's still rather amazing that despite the teams he has been in...he's won everything bar the league title. So it's not like he doesn't have a trophy cabinet.
 
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GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
You can't blame a player for who he plays around. If they're class, they're class. Only in individual sports can you rate a player solely based on what they won.
 
GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Ikki said:
Sure but Arsenal lost more than Vieira. In the space of a few years that winning team had a mass of new players with older players gone - look at the team that was even in the CL final and the one now; almost unrecognizable. As for Keane, you're forgetting he was there when Arsenal won back-to-back titles, and a few years after United has won 3 in a row.

I think Gerrard will always have something against him until he wins the league; but when I look back on the teams that he's played with, truthfully, until recently there wasn't one that could genuinely mount a season long challenge. IMO, you take Keane or Vieira out and put Gerrard in and they're winning titles.
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Didn't know he was at United in the 1930s tbh :p

(edit, not sure if they've done back-to-back since, but they certainly haven't in the last three decades)
 
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