*Official* England in South Africa

[Pothas]

Personally I think Wright's fine. The lower-order slogger/fifth bowler role is extremely difficult to fill. They frequently end up with horrendous stats and are invariably the first players to have their place questioned after a defeat. England have Luke Wright, South Africa Albie Morkel, Australia James Hopes, India Ravi Jadeja and New Zealand James Franklin. They're all subjected to all kinds of abuse at times and there's so many more talented players that could be picked instead, but it's a role that needs to be filled. I have the utmost respect for Lance Klusener because of how well he filled the most awkward little ODI position for so long.

If we insist on having this sort of player in the side, which in an ideal world we really would not then I cannot see why Wright is perfered to Dimi, I can only think that it is an age thing? In adition to this we have the awful Bresnan who I believe is supposed to actually be a real bowler but in reality is pretty much just another one of these players.

 

[marc71178]

Because Mascarenhas has very greatly flattered to deceive and never actually done it at the top level - his bowling just isn't good enough for the emphasis that is put on it.

Also, he's far worse with the bat and not up to batting 7.

 

[Pothas]

I would not disagree with his omission if it was not for the fact that Wright and Bresnan are inferior bowlers and he is not far worse with the bat by any means.

 

[Uppercut]

If we insist on having this sort of player in the side, which in an ideal world we really would not then I cannot see why Wright is perfered to Dimi, I can only think that it is an age thing? In adition to this we have the awful Bresnan who I believe is supposed to actually be a real bowler but in reality is pretty much just another one of these players.

Obviously precisely the type of player described isn't entirely necessary, but someone has to bat at 7 and bowl a few overs and England don't really have anyone who can do it better than Wright. Dimi's one of my favourite cricketers but I really don't think he's up to it. It's a 50-50 call and I can understand why they've gone for Wright.

With a tail of Broad, Swann and Bresnan you could choose to shift the whole lineup up one place and play an extra bowler, but once again, is there even a specialist bowler out there who would strengthen the side to any extent in place of Wright?

 

[four_or_six]

I still wonder if Dimi is paying for that decision to play (ie. sit on the bench) for Rajasthan in the IPL in 2008 rather than play for Hampshire and get going early in the season with some performances.

 

[aussie]

Where exactly would you get 10 overs of bowling from that lot then? I wouldn't trust Collingwood, Pietersen and Trott to bowl 10 overs consistently in an ODi.

They wont have to bowl 10 overs consistenly. They would have to fill in 10 overs, since in you would have 40 secure overs (although one bowler could have an off-day) from Anderson/Broad.Sidebottom/Swann.

Strauss
Trott
KP
Shah
Colly
Morgan
Prior
Broad
Swann
Sidebottom
Anderson

The best non-Flintoff ODI XI.

I'd much rather we binned Shah, who frankly hasn't done enough to keep his spot. He was making a few runs, but was costing the team heavily with run outs and atrocious fielding.

Technically Shah never actually costed a run out from the field nor ran any partner out in the last 2 years. He was just obviolusly noticeably bad in both areas.

Fact is Shah should not have been dropped for the SA tour when the replacement is Cook. As i mentioned before, England don't exactly have AUS type depth to banish a man like Shah from the ODI squad totally.

I'd much rather see a keeper that can open come in, either Davies or Kieswetter (when qualified)

As i said before, they may not be needed in the ODI side given that Strauss & Trott should potentially open together IMO. If the selectors do it, thats another matter. Plus although some fail to accept this - Prior is best qualified keeper to bat @ 7 in ODIs ATM.

One of Kieswetter/Davies should open in the T20 side for sure though along with Trott.

and then give the #7 spot to an all-rounder, whether it's Mascarenhas, Wright, Napier or when he's fit, Andrew Flintoff.

Neither would be good enough to bat @ 7 as Flintoff's replacement. You cannot fix a burst pipe with scotch tape - thats what picking one of Wright/Dimi/Napier to replace Freddie would be. England just have to accept this & without Flintoff pick 6 batsmen, Prior & 4 bowlers - can't go wrong.

 

[aussie]

Playing Blackwell in Wright's role wouldn't be a bad idea.

Blackwell a proven failure with the bat, no need to go back to him (although his bowling was decent). If we want a spin bowling all-rounder with the 2011 WC in mind, surely Samit Patel?. The dumb selectors can't use the he's too fat excuse forever.

Although Liam Dawson from Hampshire looks useful as well for such a role.

 

[Scaly piscine]

The hype surrounding the will he won't he Saffie/Englishman keeper is ludicrous. Seriously he's scored a few runs on roads and he's pretty ordinary with the gloves as described by Boycott recently. Must be the South African/fashionable southern county/scored some runs in televised Sky game factors I'm missing which would obviously elevate to him godlike status.

I'm sure most people would select this lineup given full fitness and typical form:

Strauss
Davies
Trott
KP
Colly
Morgan
Flintoff
Broad
Swann
Sidebottom
Anderson

Not saying I'm agreeing with it or anything, but that's the obvious XI. Some may have Onions or whoever instead of Sidebottom, some may have Mustard/Foster or a different batting order and there's about half a dozen people who believe Prior should play - his mum, aussie and the England selectors.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Blackwell a proven failure with the bat, no need to go back to him (although his bowling was decent). If we want a spin bowling all-rounder with the 2011 WC in mind, surely Samit Patel?. The dumb selectors can't use the he's too fat excuse forever.

Although Liam Dawson from Hampshire looks useful as well for such a role.

Yea because it's not like Blackwell could have improved in the three and a half years since he last played international cricket is it (he's a lot more streamlined than he used to be for starters). The problem with his batting more lies with where you'd pick him to bat, he's destructive with the field in, but otherwise holes out a lot. Regardless he's more of a squad player, I'd much rather him as second spinner than Rashid.

For me Patel really needs to get his finger out, he can't even point at sheer runs and wickets any more because last season he was rubbish.

 

[Uppercut]

Yea because it's not like Blackwell could have improved in the three and a half years since he last played international cricket is it (he's a lot more streamlined than he used to be for starters). The problem with his batting more lies with where you'd pick him to bat, he's destructive with the field in, but otherwise holes out a lot. Regardless he's more of a squad player, I'd much rather him as second spinner than Rashid.

For me Patel really needs to get his finger out, he can't even point at sheer runs and wickets any more because last season he was rubbish.

Could give him a floating role and use him at the fall of the first wicket in the batting powerplay.

 

[grecian]

Somerset a fashionable Southern county

I've heard it all now.

Blackwell should play as a bowler, the batting is an added bonus which may come off every now and again.

 

[Furball]

I still wonder if Dimi is paying for that decision to play (ie. sit on the bench) for Rajasthan in the IPL in 2008 rather than play for Hampshire and get going early in the season with some performances.

Nah, he's paying for more often that not being toothless with the ball.

 

[aussie]

Yea because it's not like Blackwell could have improved in the three and a half years since he last played international cricket is it (he's a lot more streamlined than he used to be for starters). The problem with his batting more lies with where you'd pick him to bat, he's destructive with the field in, but otherwise holes out a lot. Regardless he's more of a squad player, I'd much rather him as second spinner than Rashid.

Interesting i'll admit i have not payed much attention to Blackwell in the last few years, although i have seen a few games with him playing on Sky & he hasn't impressed me & i haven't noticed any improvement in his batting. So ATM is see him like Mahmood - another county waste.

But i'll make a keen effort to watch him next season since i am a fan of his. If he could have maintained the standard of batting he played on his ODI debuted vs IND in CT 02, he would be a top ODI player for us.

For me Patel really needs to get his finger out, he can't even point at sheer runs and wickets any more because last season he was rubbish.

I wont pay too much attention to his county form last. He was clearly ODI quality in the few games he played for ENG. Maybe the embarassment that the selectors put him through affected him a bit, but ENG can't keep him out of the ODI & T20 set-up for much longer.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I still wonder if Dimi is paying for that decision to play (ie. sit on the bench) for Rajasthan in the IPL in 2008 rather than play for Hampshire and get going early in the season with some performances.

His bank manager's absolutely convinced he made the right call.

 

[aussie]

The hype surrounding the will he won't he Saffie/Englishman keeper is ludicrous. Seriously he's scored a few runs on roads and he's pretty ordinary with the gloves as described by Boycott recently. Must be the South African/fashionable southern county/scored some runs in televised Sky game factors I'm missing which would obviously elevate to him godlike status.

Nah he is quality no hype. I have seen him bat in about 3-4 games on sky last seaon & about the same with Davies. I dont think there is much splitting them batting wise TBH, although my personal gut feeling has always been baesd on what i've see of them (nothing stats showing their SR in the recent List A season) - is Kieswetter is more capable hitter than Davies - but it wont bother me if either played eventually. Boycott does have a point about Kieswetter glovework though.

I'm sure most people would select this lineup given full fitness and typical form:

Strauss
Davies
Trott
KP
Colly
Morgan
Flintoff
Broad
Swann
Sidebottom
Anderson

Not saying I'm agreeing with it or anything, but that's the obvious XI. Some may have Onions or whoever instead of Sidebottom,.

Mascarenhas over Sidebottom in full-strenght team IMO. Onions should be nowhere near to the ODI set-up either.

some may have Mustard/Foster or a different batting order and there's about half a dozen people who believe Prior should play - his mum, aussie and the England selectors.

Haa when people on this site argue about Prior sometimes i got to wonder how closely people have followed his ODI career. The man ODI career goes like this:

- Between 04 to 06 he when he was playing on & off in the ENG ODI team he was utter crap. He did not deserve to be near the squad then, so when looking at his career peformances from ZIM 04 to IND 06 should not be considered.

- Come 2007, when he warranted selection after a proper domestic performances. But the ENG selectors made the mistake like they did with Geraint Jones in batting his out of position in the ODI team as opener. It was a risk that was taken given since Trescothick was out, ENG where lacking a opener capable of taking advantage of the power-play overs. The experiment with Prior failed.

- Recently this winter starting with the tour to WI. Prior has mroe often that not this year had the oppurtunity to bat @ 7 in his more accustomed position that he plays in tests & everytime (including yesterday in warm-up game vs SA (A), he has looked capabale of being a decent finisher down the order. Thats why i say he should be given an extended run to play in his accustomed role, given its the selectors fault that he given the task to open the batting when it was obvious from the start - he wouldn't have succeded. If he fails THEN move on.

Trott has been opening in domestic cricket of late & he looks very capable as we have seen in first two T20s of smoking the bowling in the early overs. So he can easily now open with Strauss - so Kiewswetter/Davies or Denly will not be needed as openers.

 

[Scaly piscine]

A fully fit Sidebottom is a decent albeit unremarkable bowler who gives a bit of variation. Mascarenhas on the other hand is like a specialist nothing bowler and barely does a better job than Colly would (and if you pick both you're basically wasting Colly's bowling because you'll very rarely want two dobbers rolling their arm over).

 

[marc71178]

I'm far from Sidebottom's biggest fan but even I would draw the line at leaving him out for Mascarenhas.

 

[GIMH]

The hype surrounding the will he won't he Saffie/Englishman keeper is ludicrous. Seriously he's scored a few runs on roads and he's pretty ordinary with the gloves as described by Boycott recently. Must be the South African/fashionable southern county/scored some runs in televised Sky game factors I'm missing which would obviously elevate to him godlike status.

I'm sure most people would select this lineup given full fitness and typical form:

Strauss
Davies
Trott
KP
Colly
Morgan
Flintoff
Broad
Swann
Sidebottom
Anderson

Yeah, not a bad side at all that

Not saying I'm agreeing with it or anything, but that's the obvious XI. Some may have Onions or whoever instead of Sidebottom, some may have Mustard/Foster or a different batting order and there's about half a dozen people who believe Prior should play - his mum, aussie and the England selectors.

It's funny because it's true

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah, not a bad side at all that

Funny how one moment you look at England's ODI side and think, "jeez, we're beyond hopeless" and the next you think, "looking pretty good there!"

Soo much inconsistency.

 

[grecian]

Tredwell in because of Swann's injury then. Hope they play him ahead of Rashid, TBH.