*Official* England in South Africa

[Goughy]

Personally I think Wright's fine. The lower-order slogger/fifth bowler role is extremely difficult to fill. They frequently end up with horrendous stats and are invariably the first players to have their place questioned after a defeat. England have Luke Wright, South Africa Albie Morkel, Australia James Hopes, India Ravi Jadeja and New Zealand James Franklin. They're all subjected to all kinds of abuse at times and there's so many more talented players that could be picked instead, but it's a role that needs to be filled. I have the utmost respect for Lance Klusener because of how well he filled the most awkward little ODI position for so long.

Apples and oranges. Wright is not a 5th bowler and for all the flack Albie gets he is 5 times the bowler Wright is.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah, but if Albie was English I'd be rooting for him to be picked for the side ahead of Wright non-stop.

Graham Napier's probably a better shout than Wright, come to think of it.

 

[Goughy]

The only point Id take for Wrights inclusion is similar to the one you outlined for Shah.

If the selectors were thinking "Yeah, we know he shouldnt be there but there is noone else and at least we are trying something" then I could 'see' it.

I wouldnt agree with it or think it is the right decision and it reeks of desperation but I guess it is a plan.

Wright is a player no good team should include as it is a waste of a spot, but in a weak team you can have this type of player as there is a lack of quality to replace them with. A ****-it-around cameo batsman and a 6-7 th bowler is not worth a place in a good team but for England...maybe.

 

[aussie]

Personally I think Wright's fine. The lower-order slogger/fifth bowler role is extremely difficult to fill.

Indeed it is & captains clearly would love to have the option. But as i mentioned above the IND team of 2002/03 under ganguly packed his batting basically accepting he didn't have a quality bowling attack & a quality lower-order slogger/fifth bowler & they got to the WC Final.

Without Flintoff ENG have to do the same.

They frequently end up with horrendous stats and are invariably the first players to have their place questioned after a defeat. England have Luke Wright, South Africa Albie Morkel, Australia James Hopes, India Ravi Jadeja and New Zealand James Franklin. They're all subjected to all kinds of abuse at times and there's so many more talented players that could be picked instead, but it's a role that needs to be filled. I have the utmost respect for Lance Klusener because of how well he filled the most awkward little ODI position for so long.

Hopes is not trash though. He is way above Wright & many of the bits & pieces ODI all-rounders ENG have picked over the years. He looks out of place for AUS at times, because of the high standards AUS are accustomed to, but he is very solid ODI uitlity player - Wright can't compare with him.

Plus The main reason AUS pick him is because Watson cant be depended on to bowl frequently without breaking down. AUS could drop him anytime still, especially with Henriques around.

Morkel although he is going through a bad run with the ball, is quality lower-order hitter regardless. The criitcism i see some in SA media are given him i think its a bit OTT tbf.

Jadeja probably aint fully suited to bat @ 7 given he aint a hitter. But the talent is evident still. IND have a top quality batting & bowling attack to compenstate for him.

I dont Franklin would bat @ 7 in a full strenght NZ ODI XI either. I struggle to think he would even start TBH.

Ryder
McCullum
Guptil
Taylor
Elliot
Styris
Vettori
Oram
Southee/N McCullum
Mills
Bond

 

[Uppercut]

He's just not a very good player. But I do think it's a particular role that you have to fill somehow. If you don't have any good batsmen, you don't just play bowlers instead.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a bits-and-pieces all-rounder. If someone can slog at the death well enough to justify his place in the side on that alone, fine. If it's a specialist bowler who can give it a bit of a whack (Harbhajan Singh maybe?), that's fine too. But England don't really have anyone like that that I know of. Dimi Mascarenhas didn't work out. Tim Bresnan maybe? He's already in the team, and in any case, how much of an improvement is he on Luke Wright?

It's all much of a muchness to me. If I had to pick someone, I'd say Napier, but I don't think who gets picked there is going to overly affect the quality of the team. Wright's youth doubtless counts for a lot in making the selection.

 

[FBU]

Wright has hardly played that many ODIs (24) and is only 24. He hardly gets more than 3 or 4 overs. Today he was England's best bowler getting 2 wickets (Gibbs and Amla) as he did get the full 10 overs.

There's not much difference between Morkel and Wright in the bowling this year -

Wright 46.50 econ 4.89 s/r 57.00
Morkel 57.22 econ 5.99 s/r 57.33

 

[superkingdave]

Flintoff
Tom Smith
Broad
Swann
Anderson/Sidebottom/Someone better


IMO

 

[wpdavid]

Flintoff
Tom Smith
Broad
Swann
Anderson/Sidebottom/Someone better


IMO

Smith aside, the selectors may well agree with you. It would help if all of the above bar Smith are or have been injured. And, tbh, I think any talk of Flintoff for more than an occasional role is wishful thinking.

 

[four_or_six]

Can't believe people still think Shah should be in the side, he costs god knows how many runs with his fielding and his running is disasterous. Why not give Luke Wright a chance? He's come off a good domestic season and he's shown some good character so far in some tight situations. I like him.

 

[King Pietersen]

If the top 6 (without Freddie) is Strauss, Trott, KP, Shah, Colly, Morgan. Prior is the best man to bat @ 7 in ODI cricket.

Where exactly would you get 10 overs of bowling from that lot then? I wouldn't trust Collingwood, Pietersen and Trott to bowl 10 overs consistently in an ODi. I'd much rather we binned Shah, who frankly hasn't done enough to keep his spot. He was making a few runs, but was costing the team heavily with run outs and atrocious fielding. I'd much rather see a keeper that can open come in, either Davies or Kieswetter (when qualified) and then give the #7 spot to an all-rounder, whether it's Mascarenhas, Wright, Napier or when he's fit, Andrew Flintoff.

With Flintoff out, I'd say Dimi would be a better option than Wright. The top 6 are strong, so we could afford to go in with the inferior batsman in Mascheranas as his bowling is far stronger than Wright's. He and Anderson could strike up a nice partnership opening the bowling, especially if the ball's doing abit off the track and/or in the air. He would have to open the bowling though, bowling him in the middle overs when he's spent the last few years opening the bowling for Hampshire is just silly.

The rest of the bowling attack is not that difficult to pick, with 4 guys picking themselves for me (Jimmy, Mascarenhas, Broad and Swann) but it's that 5th bowler we have a problem with. I don't see Graham Onions as a particularly good pick, and Saj Mahmood is not any better. Tubby Tim's another option, but unless the ball's hooping round corners he's majorly ineffective. I'd probably have to go for Onions atm, just until Flintoff's fit. Then when Fred returns you could have Dimi move down a spot in the batting order, with Flintoff in at 7. We've then got heaps of batting, going all the way down to Swann at 10, and 5 bowlers decent enough to do a reasonable job.

Andrew Strauss
Steve Davies
Kevin Pietersen
Jonathan Trott
Paul Collingwood
Eoin Morgan
Andrew Flintoff
Dimitri Mascarenhas
Stuart Broad
Graeme Swann
James Anderson

Looks a decent side to me that. Very strong batting order, 5 decent bowling options and the right keeper. Not that we'll ever see that team of course. The England side are keen on getting a couple of their Test players in the side, in Alastair Cook, Matt Prior and Graham Onions and then someone who's massively over-hyped because of a couple of innings on Sky in Joe Denly. The joys of being an England cricket fan.

 

[BoyBrumby]

With Flintoff out, I'd say Dimi would be a better option than Wright. The top 6 are strong, so we could afford to go in with the inferior batsman in Mascheranas as his bowling is far stronger than Wright's. He and Anderson could strike up a nice partnership opening the bowling, especially if the ball's doing abit off the track and/or in the air. He would have to open the bowling though, bowling him in the middle overs when he's spent the last few years opening the bowling for Hampshire is just silly.

TBF to Dimi his ODI record isn't really that much better than Wright's. Given the respective packages I can see why the selectors might lean towards LW: he's younger, quicker, better bowling at the death and a better batsman (although not by much).

Dimi tends to bowl length too much, which is fine when he's getting help from the pitch or conditions, but when he isn't he's fodder at his pace.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Mascarenhas would often get murdered with the new ball. It happened to Pollock in his later years when his pace dropped and he's a miles better bowler. There's no point picking him, Shah, Mahmood etc. They're not the future and they're not very good.

 

[Furball]

Mascarenhas has been completely innocous with the ball at ODI level, and with the exception of one ODI vs India where he smashed a pie bowling Yuvraj for 5 6s in a row (not that impressive a feat, Yuvraj kept feeding him perfectly in the slot, was the most brainless bowling I think I've ever seen), I can't think of any particular innings of note with the bat.

A shame, I like Dimi and want him to justify a place in the side. However, if someone like Saj or even Wright himself had performed as Dimi had, no-one would be calling for them to be in the side.

 

[GIMH]

Luke Wright is the new Stuart Broad IMO

 

[Uppercut]

Mascarenhas has been completely innocous with the ball at ODI level, and with the exception of one ODI vs India where he smashed a pie bowling Yuvraj for 5 6s in a row (not that impressive a feat, Yuvraj kept feeding him perfectly in the slot, was the most brainless bowling I think I've ever seen), I can't think of any particular innings of note with the bat.

A shame, I like Dimi and want him to justify a place in the side. However, if someone like Saj or even Wright himself had performed as Dimi had, no-one would be calling for them to be in the side.

Yeah, he's very likeable and people seem to associate him with that fantastic series against India which England won. He's such a useful player at county level, but unfortunately I can't see what use he is in the English ODI side. He just doesn't seem to have the quality.

 

[zaremba]

Edit: Yep. The game's done. Morgan gone. Prior comes to the crease, with us needing 115 runs from 16.4 overs at a RR of 6.90 with only Luke Wright to come. Going to need a monumental effort from Jonathan Trott.

Not digging this up to have a go but simply because it puts the innings of Prior and Wright into context. I hope they both keep up their current good work because the persistent sniping at them from certain quarters here is so very tedious.

 

[Uppercut]

That's just an example of defeatism. "The game's gone" when you need 116 runs @ 6.9 an over with six wickets left is pure balls, I'd have had England as marginal favourites there. It's like something Mohammed Ashraful would probably say.

 

[four_or_six]

Luke Wright is the new Stuart Broad IMO

Agreed.

 

[grecian]

Personally, I think we should go with Blackwell and Swann. Our seamers are pish whomever we pick (apart from Flintoff and Broad), with Colly, Trott and Wright invariably in the side, you can hope to get at least 20 overs out of them.

so for when we get round to the only ODI competition that matters, which is going to be in the sub-continent, so two spinners, not a terrible strategy.

Wright
Swann
Broad
Blackwell
Anderson.

Not putting Freddie in because I doubt he'll be fit for the next World Cup, would look so much better with him though, obviously. Yet as they seem to be ignoring Trott's bowling and Blackie all together, doubt it will happen.

 

[Uppercut]

Playing Blackwell in Wright's role wouldn't be a bad idea.