-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
*Official* English Football Season 2009-2010
- Thread starter cover drive man
- Start date
Tom Halsey
International Coach
Weren't you the one going on about how fans jump on bandwagons?What was I a hypocrite about?
Whatever. You just keep hatin' dude. I'ma actually listen to people who know what they are talking about.
Let's count: a judge doesn't know the law and pro players and coaches don't know about football either. We get it, everybody kisses Gerrard's ass except for the BAMF that is Scaly.
Gerrard the ultimate case in point for this IMO. Not that he isn't a good player, but Liverpool fans over-hype him hugely.
Tbh I'm surprised it's even up for debate who was better last season out of Alonso and Gerrard, because it wasn't even close IMO.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
He does have a good point about the PFA awards where Gerrard came second. People can say what they want, that is the only time where people vote who their toughest opponents have been, so if people are voting for Gerrard it must count for something. As I said, I didn't think there was much between him and Alonso, but you're going a bit far saying it's not even close. Gerrard gets polarised hugely; to the Liverpool faithful he's the messiah, to the anti-Liverpool he's a decent midfielder. Truth is he's clearly world class but gets a free pass when he does have an off day.
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
Cant see how you can compare Alonso & Gerrard both way different players of course. In the context of liverpool you can say Alonso was SLIGHTLYYYY more of a key player because his passing game allowed Gerrard to raam free behind Torres. Againts spurs we saw how important the X-man's role will be missed.
Tom Halsey
International Coach
Would you honestly say that Giggs had a better season than Gerrard did?
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Eh? It wasn't the premise of my argument. Again i think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing either way as to who their best player was last season. Hell, I know some people who go the game and reckon it was Lucas FFS! What I am saying is that polls, the popular opinion on forums, and anything else doesn't mean a whole lot as most people that claim to be Liverpool fans are actually full of **** and don't really watch any football at all. Again, this is a complete and utter fact.
Yeah it does for sure, and I would probably say the same about United, Chelsea and probably some other clubs. But Liverpool are the ones I have the most contact with, the ones I see every single day. i've heard people claim to be 'ardent' Liverpool fans then sit there chatting to girls from work while the rest of us watched Liverpool on the telly, and the rest of us was a couple of reds, me (a white) and a United fan. Now I like chasing skirt more than anything, but that's a step too far, and as I've said, liverpool have more false fans of that nature than anyone.
People can do whatever they like, nobody is obliged to watch football all the time. But it's these people who are then on the forums saying Player X is **** and Gerrard is king. The fact that he is a great player is pretty irrelevant in the grander scheme of things.
Haha, can't go a post without stats can ya
There was no argument not to vote for Torres the season before, though. And again, it's a pretty easy choice isn't it, the guy with loads of goals that everyone has heard of! Just solidifies my point I reckon. I reckon clubs near the top always have marquee players winning these polls, whereas a club like mine is more likely to get a holding midfielder or centre-back (for example) get player of the year, because everyone who votes generally actually cares about the club and watches a few games.
You call it revisionism, but I'm not really sure what you're going on about because I haven't based my opinion on anything the media have said since, hell, I've not read anything about the saga since it happened. I based what i said on what happened at the time - I'm not talking about them needing to raise the funds for Barry - they were prepared to sell Alonso because they wanted Barry. You think if they had signed Barry Alonso would have still been a Liverpool player until the end of the season. i am telling you, it's a fact that he wouldn't have.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Hmm, might be a fair point this although I saw it as a rare sentimental pick by the pros. The PFA awards are usually pretty reliable, as is the select XI they pick.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
Going on about it? No. I never tried making that a point to argue. GIMH did, I just said it was true of every club so saying one club has a set of bandwagon riders ignores the fact that every club has them.
Rightly so. Look what he's done for them. If a player of his caliber didn't make it a lifelong commitment to see his team come good again I don't think Liverpool would have won, or will win, half as much. No one is going to appreciate him as much as Liverpool's own fans.
Gerrard carried Liverpool to the CL title pretty much. I can't think of a player around then nor now that could have done that. As Henry said, it was a disgrace he didn't win the Ballon D'or that year.
Geez, now that is truly cringe-worthy. Xabi was awesome, but never that awesome. He played at a high level and was very consistent. Whereas Gerrard had a month where he wasn't at his best and injured for another time, but other than that was on another planet to every other player we had. I'd say overall Gerrard 9.5/10 and Xabi 9/10. And even those in the RAWK forums would never contend" it wasn't even close".
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
It wasn't your argument at all. You jumped in barefooted while I was talking to somebody else. I assumed you were adopting his position but it seems you don't know what it was I was actually replying to.
You don't seem to understand: the person who said Xabi was the best player used the forums/polls/fan opinion. And I used an even bigger/wider site's poll which clearly put Gerrard ahead. So, I don't understand your point at all. How can he use RAWK yet I can't use Liverpool's own official site?
TBH, in my experience it is usually United fans. As much I wouldn't like to admit it, you guys have won more and will attract these fans more.
Still, what do you want me to say to that? In your experience you've met a lot of clueless 'Pool fans? That's unfortunate, but it's neither here nor there really.
Sorry mate, you can't have it both ways. Gerrard largely played in the middle in that season and racked up a huge number of goals and practically assisted most of Torres goals himself. He was absolutely immense, yet Torres got the votes. So clearly, people are not that blind, or that biased towards Gerrard. I mean Torres is selling more shirts than Gerrard nowadays. You gotta understand, a lot of Pool fans don't like Gerrard for some inane reasons: think he's a diver (ok, maybe he has had a few but he is no C.Ronaldo), hate that the team is referred as a one-man team; like other players and hate that Gerrard steals the spotlight; etc.Haha, can't go a post without stats can ya
There was no argument not to vote for Torres the season before, though. And again, it's a pretty easy choice isn't it, the guy with loads of goals that everyone has heard of! Just solidifies my point I reckon. I reckon clubs near the top always have marquee players winning these polls, whereas a club like mine is more likely to get a holding midfielder or centre-back (for example) get player of the year, because everyone who votes generally actually cares about the club and watches a few games.
That isn't to say that citing polls is a clear-cut thing and sure they have fallacies, but that goes for both the official Liverpool site and the RAWK. And Gerrard not only won the fans vote, but all the LFC.TV journalist's vote. He had more Man of the Month than anyone by quite a bit.
It's a very easy question: if they wanted Barry instead of Alonso, why did it not happen? It wasn't an issue of money because as I explained the differences added up would have been less than the subsequent Riera transfer. I am not saying Alonso would have stayed had we bought Barry, but I am saying it did not hinge on a straight swap like that and the reason he was in the transfer list were because of his performances the year prior. He was mentioned for sale, provided the price was right, even before Liverpool even went after Barry. You think had he performed well he would be sold at all? He wouldn't have as Rafa showed he clearly wanted Alonso this year. So there is little doubt in my mind that Alonso was put up for transfer because he had been letting himself down, not that Alonso was fine but simply rated Barry higher.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
I would - rather predictably, I suppose - argue that Rooney is in that bracket.
Indeed. There was a time there where I thought they should just re-name it the London Footballer of the Year award and be done with it.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, our depth is between paper-thin and decent when everybody is fit. Rafa is banking on some of the youth like Nemeth and Insua to step up.
Tom Halsey
International Coach
If you're referring to me, then you seem to be mistaken.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
I would too - and I know as a United fan you'll love that
. He is also underrated. He has a similar mystique to Gerrard where his own fans love him and others simply think he is very good. But he is truly world-class. If his name was Roonaldo or Fernando Roonragas I feel he may actually get his deserved praise. Probably isn't at Gerrard's level but he is in that bracket IMO.
Last edited:
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
Didn't you say the RAWK forums, when you were there, were saying Xabi was better than Gerrard? If you didn't then I was mistaken.
EDIT: Reading back, it seems you were saying the RAWK forum was saying Carragher had dropped off. I may have confused the two where I said they were saying Xabi was better too and you agreed that he was. My bad.
Last edited:
roseboy64
Cricket Web Content Updater
As attacking forces only. Defensively United better in terms of world class players.
Tom Halsey
International Coach
I thought you said that the problem with fan forums is that people read an opinion and run with it.
Essentially the same thing has happened with Gerrard, though not necessarily on fan forums.
Gerrard has a knack of scoring crucial goals at crucial times, and playing well when it matters most, saving his poorer games for seemingly meaningless ones. That's obviously no bad thing, but it does go some way to explaining why Liverpool haven't won the league - the dropped points (especially at home) against poorer sides last season were often just as much down to players like Gerrard being anonymous than the lack of depth in the squad. And it is also true that he has failed to live up to his standards at Liverpool when playing for England.
I'll say again - I do rate him highly, but he is overrated IMO and I'm not sure whether or not I agree with GIMH labelling him world-class. Borderline IMO.