*Official* English Football Season 2009-2010

[BoyBrumby]

Why do you think a succession of England managers haven't? Serious question.

Personally I reckon the "Ferdinand loses concentration a lot" idea is a few years old - yeah he can have his lapses like any defender, but I think because he used to have quite a rep for it any mistake he makes now is Rio "losing concentration again" when IMO he's more solid and consistent than most these days. The fact that he's quite a smooth player as opposed a typical English bulldog type like Carragher probably adds to that perception too I think.

TBF Kuyt's goal on Wednesday was classic Rio, which is why I've never especially rated him as a pure defender (obviously the whole "Peckham playboy" schtick is pretty tiresome too) and he's benefitted from playing alongside players who are more traditional "stoppers" than he is for club and country in Vidic and Terry. Both have the turning circles of a supertanker, but such is their anticipation and positioning they only rarely get exposed.

As for why he's preferred, it's precisely because of his qualities that few centre-backs have to such an extent: pace and distribution (although, in the case of the latter, if we play Barry or Carrick it becomes much less of a virtue). What was interesting is that just before the 2006 WC Sven preferred Sol to Rio in a competitive game for about the first time (versus Austria IIRC) but the big fella was then injured for the second half of the double-header (against Poland, I think) and the chance to grasp the nettle was lost when Sol went into mental meltdown thereafter.

Dunne+Ben Haim just isn't happening, maybe one but definitely not both. For one, there's no way Everton can pay Ben Haim's wage (60+/w) and Dunne has ruled out a move today and Hughes loves him. All sources coming out of the club say it's bull**** as well.

Can see us walking from this deal and bringing in Upson after the Barca game on Wednesday and before the Wolves game.

Hughes severely overrating Lescott, IMHO. I reckon Moyes is just taking the piss to see what he can get for him now. Aside from a few more goal, there's nothing about him asa defender to put him above Upson and, from what I've heard, yer Irons are keen to do business.

 

[Redbacks]

Haha, listening to Ade's interview on mcfc.co.uk, so funny. He talks so damn fast!

If he gets into hot form just make sure he doesn't get a haircut to ruin his mojo

 

[Tom Halsey]

Rose actually didn't have the worst argument in the world, I read a Liverpool forum occasionally (mostly because it's quite funny) and most of them on there were moaning about Carragher having gone off the boil last year, not just the game v Spurs. Skrtel has been rated the higher of the two for a while by their own fans by the look of things.

 

[Ikki]

Nah, Skrtel is good, but Carra is still #1. That's the thing with people peering into forums; they read a somewhat plausible opinion from other fans and run with it. Take for example Xabi Alonso. Great player, and many did rate him highly, but to then say that he was better than Gerrard last year was a bit OTT.

I agree with you that it indeed has been brought up that Carra is letting a few attacks that he'd stomp out get by every now and again, but that's just how good he has been. The guy really wouldn't make a mistake for 90 minutes - bar his OGs of course .

 

[Craig]

Corriere dello Sport has linked William Gallas to Lazio

I kid you not (6th paragrapth down)

 

[Tom Halsey]

I haven't really got an opinion one way or the other, I'm just pointing out that Rose is hardly alone in his views, because anyone who takes a trip to RAWK would find plenty of Liverpool fans who actually agree with him.

Though regarding your other point, Alonso actually was better than Gerrard last year IMO.

Edit: @ Ikki

 

[Johnners]

Yeah Alonso was comfortably Liverpools best player last year imo.

 

[Ikki]

Nah. The reason Alonso got so much attention last year was because he was pretty mediocre for the two years before that. While Gerrard consistently racks up 20+ goals and a dozen assists a year him doing so again hardly gets as much shout. Simply put, what Xabi does to raise eyebrows and what Gerrard has to do to raise eyebrows are two completely different standards of performance. Also, rival fans would use the argument to put one up on Gerrard and lots of LFC fans, tired of being seen as a one-man team, supported it in numbers too.

However, still most Liverpool fans thought Gerrard the best, look at the voting polls on the official site. Both the LFC.TV news team and the fans had him a clear winner. Same with the neutral as he was also the Football Writer's player of the year and runner up in PFA player of the year (probably should have won that too).

Both the Carra and Alonso ripples had some decent support, but having read a lot of the forums/sites regarding Liverpool, I'd hardly say those were consensus positions. The Carra one is more recent though after the 4-4 games with Chelsea and Arsenal where people thought we conceded goals we really shouldn't have and did so in such close proximity.

 

[GIMH]

Most Liverpool fans don't watch a game all season though, they buy the shirt and proclaim Gerrard king, but don't actually know anything about the club. I'm not even exaggerating, this is a fact.

And Alonso was certainly not mediocre in the preceding years, wtf

 

[sledger]

Most Liverpool fans don't watch a game all season though, they buy the shirt and proclaim Gerrard king, but don't actually know anything about the club. I'm not even exaggerating, this is a fact.

And Alonso was certainly not mediocre in the preceding years, wtf

Yeah, agree totally. I would also like to point out that the majority of people who actively use a clubs official website are nothing but fan boys, so the outcome of the poll is hardly suprising, most impartial fans get their news from a real website.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Hughes severely overrating Lescott, IMHO. I reckon Moyes is just taking the piss to see what he can get for him now. Aside from a few more goal, there's nothing about him asa defender to put him above Upson and, from what I've heard, yer Irons are keen to do business.

Don't disagree with your first point, but Lescott is a full 3 years younger than Upson, that's certainly another plus in Lescott's column.

 

[Ikki]

Most Liverpool fans don't watch a game all season though, they buy the shirt and proclaim Gerrard king, but don't actually know anything about the club. I'm not even exaggerating, this is a fact.

And Alonso was certainly not mediocre in the preceding years, wtf

Erm, if RAWK is being cited as proof, then the above doesn't make sense. Because I would call most of them average Liverpool fans with few in the top quality tier in terms of posters. Gerrard last year was the best in the country, it hardly needs bias to justify such an argument.

And yes, Alonso was mediocre in the preceding two years: that's why he was put up for sale. He was injured for part of it also and on returning was a shadow of himself. He was great initially, then teetered out and got injured in the next couple seasons and then stepped up his game again in his last. With all due respect, I'm surprised you deny this; you've obviously not followed his career closely.

EDIT: maybe mediocre is a harsh word or my saying that may mislead others into believing he was a Danny Murphy. No, for the standards he showed initially and at the end, that period before this season he was not near his own standards, hence being put up for sale. Anyway, I was simply stating that he had improved a lot and that's why he caught the eye much more, whereas Gerrard has been a powerhouse continuously for 4-5 years and it's almost expected for him to perform amazingly and when he doesn't it stands out more.

 

[GIMH]

Erm, if RAWK is being cited as proof, then the above doesn't make sense. Because I would call most of them average Liverpool fans with few in the top quality tier in terms of posters. Gerrard last year was the best in the country, it hardly needs bias to justify such an argument.

And yes, Alonso was mediocre in the preceding two years: that's why he was put up for sale. He was injured for part of it also and on returning was a shadow of himself. He was great initially, then teetered out and got injured in the next couple seasons and then stepped up his game again in his last. With all due respect, I'm surprised you deny this; you've obviously not followed his career closely.

EDIT: maybe mediocre is a harsh word or my saying that may mislead others into believing he was a Danny Murphy. No, for the standards he showed initially and at the end, that period before this season he was not near his own standards, hence being put up for sale. Anyway, I was simply stating that he had improved a lot and that's why he caught the eye much more, whereas Gerrard has been a powerhouse continuously for 4-5 years and it's almost expected for him to perform amazingly and when he doesn't it stands out more.

What's RAWK? You've missed my point a bit. I don't think there was much to choose between Gerrard & Alonso last season, I never really stated an opinion on that one way or the other. Basically all I am saying is that you should take anything so-called Liverpool fans say with a pinch of salt. I am not saying you have to go the game to be a fan, but there are so many people on Merseyside who claim to be ardent reds yet don't watch a game ever ever ever (when they are in the pub and Liverpool are on they wear the shirt but play pool rather than watch), and plenty of these are on the forums, in the phone-ins. Trust me, I know plenty of these people.

That's not to say you should disregard everybody, far from it. But Steven Gerrard will always top the fans' polls because there is such a weight of support for him as a Liverpool legend. Some drongos round here would vote him MOTM if he took a **** in the centre-circle.

RE your appraisal of Alonso, fair enough post-edit I reckon. Although saying he was 'up for sale' is slightly inaccurate I reckon. It was more a case of them wanting Barry more.

 

[Ikki]

What's RAWK?

A popular Liverpool forum.

You've missed my point a bit. I don't think there was much to choose between Gerrard & Alonso last season, I never really stated an opinion on that one way or the other. Basically all I am saying is that you should take anything so-called Liverpool fans say with a pinch of salt.

I can't take Liverpool's fans' opinion with a grain of salt especially when the comment that most Liverpool FANS rated Xabi ahead is the premise of the argument.

I am not saying you have to go the game to be a fan, but there are so many people on Merseyside who claim to be ardent reds yet don't watch a game ever ever ever (when they are in the pub and Liverpool are on they wear the shirt but play pool rather than watch), and plenty of these are on the forums, in the phone-ins. Trust me, I know plenty of these people.

You're not saying much, that goes for a whole lot of popular clubs with bandwagon riders.

That's not to say you should disregard everybody, far from it. But Steven Gerrard will always top the fans' polls because there is such a weight of support for him as a Liverpool legend. Some drongos round here would vote him MOTM if he took a **** in the centre-circle.

Gerrard scored 21 goals and 23 assists the season before last - to put that in context, only Ronaldo contributed more towards goals with 42 goals and 7 assists) - and was voted 2nd because Liverpool fans just loved Torres that year. The argument goes several ways: not all Liverpool fans are from Liverpool, not all like Gerrard for a variety of reasons.

RE your appraisal of Alonso, fair enough post-edit I reckon. Although saying he was 'up for sale' is slightly inaccurate I reckon. It was more a case of them wanting Barry more.

No, this is just revisionism by the media. When we went for Barry we could have easily gotten him by giving Villa the couple million they yearned and we could have sold Alonso for the price Juventus was quoted wanting to buy him by giving him a few million under our evaluation. Because, lest we forget, Liverpool spent 7-8 million on Riera once the Barry transfer fell though (we wanted Barry for the left side as well as cover in the middle). Alonso was up because he hadn't seemed to recover from injury from the season before but was only going to go for a price Rafa thought he deserved. This is why I revised and edited my post because when a player is worth 18+ million even when not at his best, then he is still clearly a good player. But I am just tellin' ya, he was noway this good in the previous 2 seasons we had him and people really weren't that surprised or upset that he was being sold. If they were, it was mostly because they didn't think Barry was worth the swap.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Gerrard is a good club player, but he's not in the top rung of players.

Get a grip.

 

[Ikki]

Gerrard is a good club player, but he's not in the top rung of players.

Get a grip.

I guess, players and coaches like Vieira, Henry, Torres, Kaka, Zidane,
Hiddink, Ferguson, et al are wrong. Scaly piscine is right.

No, seriously, did Gerrard have a crack at your missus or something? - Not assault or affray .

 

[sledger]

I guess, players and coaches like Vieira, Henry, Torres, Kaka, Zidane,
Hiddink, Ferguson, et al are wrong. Scaly piscine is right.

No, seriously, did Gerrard have a crack at your missus or something?

****ing hell, hypocrite much?

 

[Agent TBY]

Er, did I just travel back in time or something?

 

[Scaly piscine]

Fellow professionals almost always kiss each other arses. It is meaningless.

I'm not the one who thinks the sun shines out of cowardly thug's bottom. He fails to look good even for England, if he can't manage that then he's clearly not in the top echelon of players.

He's not even the best player at his club. Thanks to Alonso's move he's only second best now.

 

[Ikki]

****ing hell, hypocrite much?

What was I a hypocrite about?

Fellow professionals almost always kiss each other arses. It is meaningless.

I'm not the one who thinks the sun shines out of cowardly thug's bottom. He fails to look good even for England, if he can't manage that then he's clearly not in the top echelon of players.

Whatever. You just keep hatin' dude. I'ma actually listen to people who know what they are talking about.

Let's count: a judge doesn't know the law and pro players and coaches don't know about football either. We get it, everybody kisses Gerrard's ass except for the BAMF that is Scaly.