Official Pro-Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, ROH etc.)

[sledger]

MVP just isn't getting over on Raw, think ECW might be a good move for him actually. It looked like they really wanted to push him, I thought he was doing a good job, but the fans just weren't getting behind him. But tbf, they never gave him a big win to get the crowd behind him.

Yeah, he clearly isn't getting as over as they would have liked. I don't think Kofi is either to be honest, he doesn't get a bad reaction, but he doesn't get much of a good one either, which is a shame, but perhaps not surprising as Kofi has terrible mic skills, and I can't recall one occasion where he has spoken on live TV apart from to do his terrible "Jamaican" accent whilst doing guest commentary. MVP on the other hand is a bit harder to explain, indeed he has not had his big win, but I think his character allround is just better suited to being a heel. He was really over about a year ago, and got a big win over Jeff Hardy at Summerslam, but then his massive burial began, and then a face turn, and he's never got the same momentum back.

Seems to be quite the opposite from Ron Killings in fact, who picks up a win every blue moon it seems, but yet remains very over, strange.

 

[duffer]

Mvp is the perfect example of the problems with WWE's short termist booking.

He has all the skills needed to get over and a gimmick which suits him down to the ground but when you've been booked as a joke for so long (remember his dire losing streak) you're always swimming against the tide to get yourself back up. The damage done earlier is preventing him from getting over unless he can find a way to completely re-invent himself.

 

[sledger]

A Monday report in entertainment trade journal Variety discusses WWE's guest hosting gimmick on RAW, noting that WWE RAW has effectively become part of the "talkshow circuit" for celebrities to promote projects.

The article, which acknowledges the mainstream publicity WWE has already received for episodes featuring Jeremy Piven and Seth Green, quotes Stephanie McMahon in saying that the program raises the company's awareness in Hollywood and will hopefully translate to new viewers

The Variety report deems the program successful thus far, saying that RAW viewership is up 10% since introducing the program.

Planned to last until early next year--possibly through WrestleMania 26--the program has attracted many recognizable Hollywood and sports names. According to the article, Bob Barker, Al Sharpton, Nancy O'Dell, Floyd Mayweather and LeBron James have been booked for future episodes. Freddie Prinze, Jr. hosts Monday's edition.

Meanwhile, Pete Wentz, Ashlee Simpson, the Osbournes, Danny DeVito, Regis Philbin, Kelly Ripa, Jimmy Fallon, Rachael Ray, MC Hammer, Woody Harrelson, Serena Williams and Ashton Kutcher are all in talks to host.

Facepalm.jpg

 

[sledger]

On a side note, TNA Hard Justice last night looked like a really decent show, I think I'm really going to give TNA are go for a while and try and watch every week from now on, because I'm really getting more and more turned off by this guest host crap in the WWE.

 

[masterblaster]

On a side note, TNA Hard Justice last night looked like a really decent show, I think I'm really going to give TNA are go for a while and try and watch every week from now on, because I'm really getting more and more turned off by this guest host crap in the WWE.

TNA's not that flash either. It's disgraceful that they still have Kurt Angle as their TNA World Champion but it's not like World Championships mean anything these days. The World Championships are merely just storyline props and it seems that because TNA seem to plan out 6 months of storylines in advance, that they couldn't have Kurt Angle drop the title. Either way it sends out a horrible message to the wrestling fans and the general community by having the face of your company being arrested.

Plus TNA booking makes no logical sense and some of the stuff they do is in really bad taste. They have all the talent in the world but their management and their booking is really bad for the most part. The Raw side of things is pretty bad too. Smackdown and ECW are the only shows that are keeping me interested in the WWE.

 

[masterblaster]

Mvp is the perfect example of the problems with WWE's short termist booking.

He has all the skills needed to get over and a gimmick which suits him down to the ground but when you've been booked as a joke for so long (remember his dire losing streak) you're always swimming against the tide to get yourself back up. The damage done earlier is preventing him from getting over unless he can find a way to completely re-invent himself.

The problem is there is way too much WWE on television these days and you become over exposed really quickly. There's Raw, Smackdown, ECW and Superstars. There's also TNA Impact too. That's like 8 hours of wrestling on television every week. Even if you are not over exposed, people can't handle that much wrestling on television and just get burned out by the product.

Remember when there was just Raw and Sunday Night Heat? The WWE were at their best for a reason back then. People got great action but WWE always left you wanting more.

 

[sledger]

TNA's not that flash either. It's disgraceful that they still have Kurt Angle as their TNA World Champion but it's not like World Championships mean anything these days. The World Championships are merely just storyline props and it seems that because TNA seem to plan out 6 months of storylines in advance, that they couldn't have Kurt Angle drop the title. Either way it sends out a horrible message to the wrestling fans and the general community by having the face of your company being arrested.

Plus TNA booking makes no logical sense and some of the stuff they do is in really bad taste. They have all the talent in the world but their management and their booking is really bad for the most part. The Raw side of things is pretty bad too. Smackdown and ECW are the only shows that are keeping me interested in the WWE.

Where this is true, at least when you tune into TNA you get actual wrestling, and good quality wrestling at that. Certainly there are some major bugs in TNA that need to be ironed out, and I believe they are in the process of doing so. I'm in no way saying it's an amazing show, but at the moment I would sooner watch this than an episode of RAW, hands down. There is certainly a load of dross they turn out on their shows, but watching Impact the other night just reminded me of how I felt when I used to watch RAW or Nitro back in the mid 90's, and it was a nice feeling.

 

[GIMH]

On a side note, TNA Hard Justice last night looked like a really decent show, I think I'm really going to give TNA are go for a while and try and watch every week from now on, because I'm really getting more and more turned off by this guest host crap in the WWE.

I keep telling you this, stop just equating Raw with WWE, bin Raw off and watch Smackdown instead,comfortably the best wrestling show on TV

 

[sledger]

The problem is there is way too much WWE on television these days and you become over exposed really quickly. There's Raw, Smackdown, ECW and Superstars. There's also TNA Impact too. That's like 8 hours of wrestling on television every week. Even if you are not over exposed, people can't handle that much wrestling on television and just get burned out by the product.

Remember when there was just Raw and Sunday Night Heat? The WWE were at their best for a reason back then. People got great action but WWE always left you wanting more.

I think this is definitely true, there is an overkill of WWE shows, and the brand split seems to mean nearly nothing these days, as guys from each roster routinely turn up on other shows, I remember when the brand split first came in, it was really strictly adhered to, but nowadays you may as well not bother a lot of the time, Unfortunately this doesn't look like changing any time soon either, as more TV shows = More money for Vince.

 

[sledger]

I keep telling you this, stop just equating Raw with WWE, bin Raw off and watch Smackdown instead,comfortably the best wrestling show on TV

Yeah fair enough, it just puts a very negative image in your my mind when I'm watching WWE at all though, to know that their absolutely top flag ship show is little more than a joke these days just undermines the validity of their entire product for mine, just a mental thing I need to get over I suppose.

 

[GIMH]

I think this is definitely true, there is an overkill of WWE shows, and the brand split seems to mean nearly nothing these days, as guys from each roster routinely turn up on other shows, I remember when the brand split first came in, it was really strictly adhered to, but nowadays you may as well not bother a lot of the time, Unfortunately this doesn't look like changing any time soon either, as more TV shows = More money for Vince.

Hmm, they have actually been fairly disciplined over the last few months. The only people really appearing on both shows are Jericho & Show but there is actually a legitimate reaosn for them to due to the tag titles being multi-brand. Other than that I can't think of many wrestlers who appear across brands.

The thing that winds me up is that on both ECW & Smackdown we get a 5 minute recap of Raw, should be the other way round really given how much less accessible those programmes are to mainstream US viewers (who, at the end of the day, are the most important audience from WWE's POV)

 

[GIMH]

Yeah fair enough, it just puts a very negative image in your my mind when I'm watching WWE at all though, to know that their absolutely top flag ship show is little more than a joke these days just undermines the validity of their entire product for mine, just a mental thing I need to get over I suppose.

I actually don't mind the guest host thing tbf, and obviously if it's picking up ratings it's going to continue, we may not like it but that's the aim of the game. I personally have enjoyed Raw more in the last couple of months than I did in the few months beforehand. I kind of like the fact, though, that Smackdown isn't the flagship show - it's the wrestling show, the one designed for those of us who care enough to post in this thread. Raw is obviously designed to attract casual viewers who may be flicking through the channels. Also, at the PPVs most of the time Smackdown seems to get top billing.

 

[sledger]

Hmm, they have actually been fairly disciplined over the last few months. The only people really appearing on both shows are Jericho & Show but there is actually a legitimate reaosn for them to due to the tag titles being multi-brand. Other than that I can't think of many wrestlers who appear across brands.

The thing that winds me up is that on both ECW & Smackdown we get a 5 minute recap of Raw, should be the other way round really given how much less accessible those programmes are to mainstream US viewers (who, at the end of the day, are the most important audience from WWE's POV)

I suppose they have got better at it recently to be fair, but it's lost some of the shine it once had. When it began you could actually believe that Smackdown! and Raw were totally seperate enterprises, under seperate ownership. These day's it's just like they are just two seperate groups of guys who interchange every now and again.

 

[sledger]

I actually don't mind the guest host thing tbf, and obviously if it's picking up ratings it's going to continue, we may not like it but that's the aim of the game. I personally have enjoyed Raw more in the last couple of months than I did in the few months beforehand. I kind of like the fact, though, that Smackdown isn't the flagship show - it's the wrestling show, the one designed for those of us who care enough to post in this thread. Raw is obviously designed to attract casual viewers who may be flicking through the channels. Also, at the PPVs most of the time Smackdown seems to get top billing.

Yeah I suppose that's true, I just can't imagine that there isn't a market for the same type of show that drew viewers in abundance between 98-05 anymore. Wrestling will always change and evolve over time, but I just really hate the way it's taken it's latest steps. I also agree that it is good that Smackdown is the wrestling show so to speak, but when you have one out and out wrestling show and one show full of skits and jokes and minimal wrestling I think it sends out a message that Vince and the creative team don't really know themselves what they want the product to be, I certainly couldn't tell them.

 

[GIMH]

Interesting that you say 98-05, because I would draw a line at 02 and say that that was the beginning of a new age. Those old days won't return, and the casuals who were drawn in by the shock factor of the attitude era won't ever return to wrestling, they don't like wrestling they just liked swearing and ***. It's cyclical and it always has been, after the amazingness of the late 80s and early 90s there was a lull in the mid-90s, and I'm sure we will see a rise like the late 90s/early 00s again sometime in the future. SOmething or somebody new will need to happen for that to happen though.

 

[sledger]

Interesting that you say 98-05, because I would draw a line at 02 and say that that was the beginning of a new age. Those old days won't return, and the casuals who were drawn in by the shock factor of the attitude era won't ever return to wrestling, they don't like wrestling they just liked swearing and ***. It's cyclical and it always has been, after the amazingness of the late 80s and early 90s there was a lull in the mid-90s, and I'm sure we will see a rise like the late 90s/early 00s again sometime in the future. SOmething or somebody new will need to happen for that to happen though.

I agree that there is a distinct difference between 02 and 05. But I still think that in the years between those two times, the show although different, was still well built, and the feuds were still good. Though many would disagree, I think 2005 was a really good year for WWE, and they were really going in a new direction and building a new product, unfortunately due to deaths and people leaving the company it kind of just tailed off and ended, and we've ended up where we are now. 2005 was really good value for me though, the Jericho/Cena feud from that year is the best feud I have ever seen Cena involved with, and a really good one for Jericho as well. Rey and Eddie's feud was good as well, some terrible storylines but some really great matches. Shelton Benjamin and Carlito were getting more and more over and they had some really great matches as well. Christian was breaking into the main event scene and had a few world title shots. The Edge and Matt Hardy feud was awesome, off the charts good, and amazing that it has been forgotten so much since. The Orton/Undertaker feud was still going on..... Oh man.

 

[GIMH]

I think nostalgia plays a part, though. If you look back at 09 in a few yaers it's easy to cut out the crap, I'll remember the Hardy-Edge and Hardy-Punk feuds, Cena and The Miz, the rise of Morrison, and of course HBK-Taker.

I mean, look at 98-01, the peak time of wrestling and the main events and storylines were top notch. But go check some of the undercards. It was only in 2000 when Angle, Jericho & Benoit arrived that the whole show became good. The 98/99 years saw some awful, awful matches make it to PPV. Kennel in a Cell anyone?

 

[sledger]

I think nostalgia plays a part, though. If you look back at 09 in a few yaers it's easy to cut out the crap, I'll remember the Hardy-Edge and Hardy-Punk feuds, Cena and The Miz, the rise of Morrison, and of course HBK-Taker.

I mean, look at 98-01, the peak time of wrestling and the main events and storylines were top notch. But go check some of the undercards. It was only in 2000 when Angle, Jericho & Benoit arrived that the whole show became good. The 98/99 years saw some awful, awful matches make it to PPV. Kennel in a Cell anyone?

I think that is true to an extent, but it's clear that the card on events these days isn't anywhere near as good as the cards of the events from yesteryear, that I guess is to be expected, as great wrestlers do not grow on trees, but still...ah I dunno. At least the E is through the horrible patch of 06-07. They really were dire times, there was one particular event, where half the roster was suspended, and was just utter tripe, can't quite recall which one it was though, should be grateful for what we have I guess..

 

[masterblaster]

Smackdown is definitely the number one show at the moment mainly because of the young, fresh and hungry stars that are on there. CM Punk has made Smackdown his own while the likes of Chris Jericho, Edge and John Morrison have been really solid. Jeff Hardy has been a real breakthrough and has finally proved himself to be a main event star.

While there are plenty of negatives, there are plenty of positives too. Smackdown and ECW have regularly showed what good, sensible booking and a commitment to having good wrestling matches can achieve. I think the mid card and the undercard is the best that WWE have had for a very long time and most of them are actually very good wrestlers.

The thing that is lacking is the main event scene on Raw which has been very stale. But it doesn't take much to fix that. Have the next PPV be Randy Orton vs MVP or if John Cena wins have it John Cena vs Jack Swagger. On the smaller PPV's especially give the likes of MVP, Swagger and Bourne the chance to get that main event in ring experience so that they will have the confidence in the future to headline a Summerslam or a Wrestlemania.

It's a bit silly to expect Jack Swagger or MVP to main event Wrestlemania so why don't they main event Armageddon or Judgment Day instead? For me, progressive exposure to the main event for the upper mid card talent is the only way to go.

 

[sledger]

Smackdown is definitely the number one show at the moment mainly because of the young, fresh and hungry stars that are on there. CM Punk has made Smackdown his own while the likes of Chris Jericho, Edge and John Morrison have been really solid. Jeff Hardy has been a real breakthrough and has finally proved himself to be a main event star.

While there are plenty of negatives, there are plenty of positives too. Smackdown and ECW have regularly showed what good, sensible booking and a commitment to having good wrestling matches can achieve. I think the mid card and the undercard is the best that WWE have had for a very long time and most of them are actually very good wrestlers.

The thing that is lacking is the main event scene on Raw which has been very stale. But it doesn't take much to fix that. Have the next PPV be Randy Orton vs MVP or if John Cena wins have it John Cena vs Jack Swagger. On the smaller PPV's especially give the likes of MVP, Swagger and Bourne the chance to get that main event in ring experience so that they will have the confidence in the future to headline a Summerslam or a Wrestlemania.

It's a bit silly to expect Jack Swagger or MVP to main event Wrestlemania so why don't they main event Armageddon or Judgment Day instead? For me, progressive exposure to the main event for the upper mid card talent is the only way to go.

Where this is unedniably true, how many times have we said this before? As I mentioned earlier we could have said the same thing about, Chris Masters, Carlito, Shelton, Christian, Matt Hardy etc.. many years ago, the E have had plenty of young stars ready to step up to the main event over the years, but the majority of them never get the opportunity. Let's just hope for once they actually do.