*Official* Second Test at Lords

[Prince EWS]

Yeah, get Foster in at 3. Ideal man to come in at 196 for 1 and blunt the new ball.

Heh, not that I'd actually bat Foster at three under any circumstances, but such a plan would obviously have to come with a somewhat flexible batting order. I'd have absolutely no problem at all with Pietersen batting three and Collingwood batting four if the score was 196/1.. and I doubt Richard would either.

 

[GIMH]

Got to give so much credit to our boys, they have turned things round so much over the last week. People can talk about how the Aussies have batted and bowled poorly, and yeah, they have, but you can only beat what is put in front of you. This time last week everyone was pointing at laughing at us, this has been a thoroughly clinical performance so far, and that with quite a few players not really coming to the party...I just hope we can go in for the kill tomorrow

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Heh, not that I'd actually bat Foster at three under any circumstances, but such a plan would obviously have to come with a somewhat flexible batting order. I'd have absolutely no problem at all with Pietersen batting three and Collingwood batting four if the score was 196/1.. and I doubt Richard would either.

Number 3 has to be able to adapt to all circumstances. Some sort of revolving batting order depending on circumstances would be a great way to pee off the entire top order.
It's just a completely nonsensical suggestion. If Pietersen wanted to bat at three he already would be.

 

[Uppercut]

Hmm, I disagree. I don't think to be the world's most destructive batsman you have to have a Test SR that is up in the 80s or whatever. He has become a more intelligent batsman and plays to the situation. I think it would be silly to believe he wasn't capable of destroying attacks when required. A fully fit and in-form Pietersen would have scored fast today, for sure.

See, the reason I struggle to buy this particular theory is that he's not scoring any more runs. You would think that the new, circumspect Kevin Pietersen would do away with flashy 50s and 60s and set himself for big scores, but really he's only scored one century this year in nine matches- off 92 balls when the situation demanded he abandon his new persona and score quickly.

You could reasonably conclude that KP's actually better off playing aggressively, possibly because he lacks the concentration for long stays at the crease with not much happening. Or you could conclude that he's out of form and not really capable of blazing into attacks the way he used to. It looks to me like a combination of both- but there's no way he's as destructive a batsman in either tests or ODIs as is widely let on.

 

[GIMH]

Well I would agree that he is out of form, and therefore I don't really see too much relevance in citing 1 ton in 9 matches...I was talking generally, not recently, and there can be no doubt that some of the innings he has played over the past couple of years have been intelligent innings, and that he can take the game away from the opposition. But I'll agree to disagree on this, I'd back him to be carving attacks up soon enough though.

 

[Prince EWS]

See, the reason I struggle to buy this particular theory is that he's not scoring any more runs. You would think that the new, circumspect Kevin Pietersen would do away with flashy 50s and 60s and set himself for big scores, but really he's only scored one century this year in nine matches- off 92 balls when the situation demanded he abandon his new persona and score quickly.

You could reasonably conclude that KP's actually better off playing aggressively, possibly because he lacks the concentration for long stays at the crease with not much happening. Or you could conclude that he's out of form and not really capable of blazing into attacks the way he used to. It looks to me like a combination of both- but there's no way he's as destructive a batsman in either tests or ODIs as is widely let on.

Personally, I think he's changed his natural batting tempo artificially as a direct result of all the ridiculously over-the-top criticism he gets in the media every time he gets out playing an attacking shot and/or as part of the general tactics of 'Team England'. It's frankly not working though because, as you say, he doesn't really have the concentration to do this so he normally ends up getting out anyway, having faced a similar number of balls to what he would have done if he played his natural game and having scored less runs.

 

[aussie]

Interesting bowling predicament devolping for AUS for the next test match already if Lee is fit. Johnson clearly wont be dropped, but he has been the weak link so far.

It will be hard to leave out Haurtiz ATS, i loved his spell to Strauss, really classic off-spin. But i still reckon ENG are playing way too conservatively though.

Plus if Watson is FIT to bowl, he could replace North, secure Hauritz's place. Thus allowing AUS to play 5 bowlers.

 

[Uppercut]

Personally, I think he's changed his natural batting tempo artificially as a direct result of all the ridiculously over-the-top criticism he gets in the media every time he gets out playing an attacking shot and/or as part of the general tactics of 'Team England'. It's frankly not working though because, as you say, he doesn't really have the concentration to do this so he normally ends up getting out anyway, having faced a similar number of balls to what he would have done if he played his natural game and having scored less runs.

That's a distinct possibility- better to get out with a defensive shot than an attacking one every single time. It didn't really work though. He got out playing a defensive shot against South Africa last summer and was criticised just as heavily anyway because the shots he had played previously were attacking shots that came off.

 

[Uppercut]

Well I would agree that he is out of form, and therefore I don't really see too much relevance in citing 1 ton in 9 matches...I was talking generally, not recently, and there can be no doubt that some of the innings he has played over the past couple of years have been intelligent innings, and that he can take the game away from the opposition. But I'll agree to disagree on this, I'd back him to be carving attacks up soon enough though.

Don't you see any relevance, though, in the fact that his only ton was scored when he abandoned his born-again circumspect play and hit out?

 

[steds]

"I think it's about time someone said he's a good player" - Bumble on Prior. Very much agree, hard to see him being dropped again anytime soon.

-1,000,000 respect for Bumble.

 

[91Jmay]

-1,000,000 respect for Bumble.

Explain??

Prior is a good player, not great - wouldn't pick him for any Dream teams. But a very good batsmen.

 

[FBU]

I've always loved him

Yes

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/23239-james-anderson.html

 

[Jakester1288]

Plus if Watson is FIT to bowl, he could replace North, secure Hauritz's place. Thus allowing AUS to play 5 bowlers.

If Watson would come into the side, it's at the expense of Hussey. Everyone else in the batting order is in good form at the moment, bar Hussey. Hussey made 51 in the first innings, and with his unbeaten century he is about to crack in the next innings, he should secure his spot in the team for a while.

I have faith in Hussey. If we ever need a big Hussey innings, it's now. I hope I don't waste my time staying up tonight to see us get owned.

 

[Athlai]

Hussey to drag his average in the past 20 innings above 50 with a knock of 400.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I haven't disagreed with anything anyone who isn't a complete idiot has said on this forum for a very, very long time.

Bowling poorly in one Test does not mean you will bowl poorly in the next one. And in Johnson's case, bowling poorly doesn't even mean he won't be effective anyway. I personally actually think Clark is better than Johnson when both are at full fitness, but I have infinitely more faith in Johnson to get through his poor patch of form than I do of Clark to actually be fully fit and ready to bowl at his best.

You do not go from destroying one of the best teams in the world home and away, being lauded as the best quick in the world and being the leading wicket-taker in Test cricket over the past twelve months having played mainly against quality batting lineups to not being in the team after one below-average showing and one poor one. It's so tremendously fickle to suggest so that it's well and truly beyond any sort of sound logic.

Except that it's not really when you're trying to win The Ashes (or any other match for that matter). Johnson hasn't even really shown a glimpse of that form in the first two tests. Something has gone wrong and the middle of a test isn't the time to fix it. I haven't seen him bowl a good spell yet and I've seen two good balls in two tests (with possibly a few more in front of that slower ball that got Bopara in the last test).

If I was selecting the team then I'd give him the game between the next two tests to get it right otherwise I'd look at someone who can do a better job for at least the next match. At the moment we're playing with one seamer who is doing a good job, one who bowls some good spells and some poor and one who is only serving in releasing any pressure built up from the other end and struggling to hit the pitch. Broad cops it for bowling like he does for England. Johnson is worse in my opinion at the moment. That's assuming Broad could actually bowl it full if he wanted to.

At 1-0 down it's not difficult to come back in the next 3 tests and get yourself a win. At 2-0 down it gets a hell of a lot harder. We need to win the next test if we lose this. And we probably will do that without rain.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Nah, Swann's English. England spinners aren't allowed to outbowl Australian ones.

They are, they just have to actually do it.

 

[pup11]

Interesting bowling predicament devolping for AUS for the next test match already if Lee is fit. Johnson clearly wont be dropped, but he has been the weak link so far.

It will be hard to leave out Haurtiz ATS, i loved his spell to Strauss, really classic off-spin. But i still reckon ENG are playing way too conservatively though.

Plus if Watson is FIT to bowl, he could replace North, secure Hauritz's place. Thus allowing AUS to play 5 bowlers.

One can never be sure with Watto, everything might look fine with him before the game, but during the game he might just break down, the other thing is there doesn't seem to be any vacant spot available either for him to come into.

Hussey and Hughes haven't been good enough so far, but faith should be persisted in them, and it would be pretty ridiculous to even think of dropping North at this point.

The way Johnson has bowled, there is no doubt Australia could do well with another bowling option, but the problem is that the balance of the current side doesn't allow Australia that luxury.

I have a feeling that, if Lee is fit for the 3rd test, they might drop Siddle and bring him in his place, that won't be the right decision in my book, but that's what's most likely to happen, because can't see them dropping Johnson, and neither is it likely that they would make their most experienced bowler sit on the fringes once he is fit.

 

[pup11]

Goes without saying that today and possibly tomorrow could prove to be the two of the most important days of this series, therefore its very important both the teams are on top of their games.

Does anyone see England batting a bit more this morning, or do you think they would declare overnight..?

From an Aussie perspective its been pretty disappointing to see your team get flogged like this for most of the match, so hoping they would show some fighting spirit for the rest of the game.

I'm looking forward to how they handle things in the 2nd innings, it would be interesting to see whether they bat normally, and take one session at a time, or would they just completely go into their shells and look to block everything.

 

[Nate]

Still can't believe Clark get get a match.

 

[TT Boy]

Forecast today is for light rain but tomorrow is very good, so as long as England get five wickets, they should be happy and have more than enough time tomorrow to finish the job off.