*Official* Second Test at Lords

[aussie]

What a complete and total load of bollocks.

You gotta come better than that b, dont be so quick to but your Durham player biased defensive shield.

Onions i fear is the bowling equivalent to Bopara. They did the hard yards in domestic cricket yes, but unfortunately them doing well againts the woeful windies before the Ashes didn't hold much water. Bopara has almost solidified that he aint the test # 3 that ENG need ATM & in the warm-up that was shown on TV, i saw nothing from Onions that proves he will/could be a serious wicket-taking option in the Ashes. Harmo outbowled him..

All of this goes back to the deeper point that i feel alot of people kind of look past, in that the the standard of the cricket in the FC competition here is weak in a many area's even if the structure is solid. How else do you explain Kaneria taking big wickets ever season, but yet looking woeful in test cricket for years.

 

[aussie]

Bell is there.

Ha yea i see him now..

 

[tooextracool]

Took four wickets in a dead rubber. Bowled one good spell to get Smith and Amla out then dropped his pace in every other spell in the match.

As I said earlier, that's oversimplying things to an almost Richard point of view. Harmison was threatening throughout the test match and almost anyone who watched that game would tell you that he was a significant difference to the England side that had been getting their a**es handed back to them on a frequent basis.

Also, if you think that it was just his opening spell to Amla and Smith that was deadly, try watching his spell to Prince who looked absolutely clueless (this while being in the form of his life that series).

Broad made Harmison look like a little girl rolling pies along the ground in the two matches they played together in the West Indies (thereby leading to Harmison's dropping, after which Broad continued to bowl better than Harmison has since 2006). In ODIs, he's been good for years. In the T20 World Cup, he was excellent. Broad has had one bad game since November, where he took no wickets (hardly exactly unique amongst England's bowlers over the past five days) and suddenly he's useless? Not having that.

Err, incase this hasnt already occurred to you, t20 and ODI cricket have precisely no relevance to Stuart Broad's test match credentials. And as I already stated, Harmison isn't a very good bowler on dead pitches so bringing up his performances from the WI is irrelevant. The point is that the Ashes is in England not WI or India and Harmison in England has been a consistently superior bowler than Broad.

 

[tooextracool]

He doesn't swing or seam the ball, the most he can do is be a defensive stock bowler.

You have to wonder if you have ever seen Onions bowl or if you are just talking complete nonsense. Onions doesn't seam the ball? Firstly, I have never heard of a half decent pace bowler who was incapable of seaming the ball, but if anything Onions is probably better than everyone in the England side at hitting the seam. And, reports from county cricket have stated that hes bowled many spells with genuine out swing bowling so I have to wonder what on earth you are talking about. I cant imagine how a bowler can take 54 wickets at less than 17 a piece without being able to swing or seam the ball.

 

[aussie]

You have to wonder if you have ever seen Onions bowl or if you are just talking complete nonsense. Onions doesn't seam the ball? Firstly, I have never heard of a half decent pace bowler who was incapable of seaming the ball, but if anything Onions is probably better than everyone in the England side at hitting the seam. And, reports from county cricket have stated that hes bowled many spells with genuine out swing bowling so I have to wonder what on earth you are talking about. I cant imagine how a bowler can take 54 wickets at less than 17 a piece without being able to swing or seam the ball.

Well he aint no McGrath or Flintoff, in that he doesn't have any control of the seam movement he gets. If he gets its its basically due to hitting a crack of overhead conditions.

Based on what how he bowled vs WI & the ashes warm-up, he is just one of those bustling bowlers who Strauss could depend on the run into the wind & bowl long spells at good pace - thats it. As i said Braod is there for that. (plus Broad's batting ability is a plus)

But given the worries of Flintoff's fitness now, there is solid case for both Harmo & Onions playing at Lord's. If Freddie is fit though, presuming Lord's aint flat, Harmo has to play ahead of Onions.

 

[Prince EWS]

You have to wonder if you have ever seen Onions bowl or if you are just talking complete nonsense. Onions doesn't seam the ball? Firstly, I have never heard of a half decent pace bowler who was incapable of seaming the ball, but if anything Onions is probably better than everyone in the England side at hitting the seam.

Yeah, AWTA strongly. Not a huge fan of Onions, but he seems (no pun intended) to me to be quite adept at hitting the seam and getting just a little bit of movement every ball. Strikes me as the type of guy who'd get the ball to do just enough on pitches that no-one else could get any assistance from, actually - like a poor man's Stuart Clark.

IMO, he doesn't really have the consistency in his record to really justify being in a Test team ahead of a few other candidates, but what he's shown has actually made me wonder why he's averaged over 30 in First Class cricket his entire career up to this point. Add in his excellent stats for this season and all signs point to bowler who has undergone a significant improvement in recent times.

 

[Furball]

Johnson is no where near the finished product and is still going to have plenty of ordinary and perplexing games that come with inexperience. He has shown since his debut, however, that he's a quick learner and can improve his game rapidly so it won't suprise to see him getting better and better as the series go along.

The worrying thing though, is that Johnson bowled pretty poorly and still came out of a Test played on a flat pitch with figures of 5/120 or thereabouts.

 

[tooextracool]

The worrying thing though, is that Johnson bowled pretty poorly and still came out of a Test played on a flat pitch with figures of 5/120 or thereabouts.

That says more about England's batting than Johnson's bowling tbh.

 

[GIMH]

If you honestly think that his performances at the Oval last year where not instrumental in England winning, then you must be seriously kidding yourself. The whole game changed from the very moment that he bowled his first ball and not once in that series did things look remotely similar. That he took his wickets at 30 a piece is irrelevant because without him Anderson would have been half as effective as he was that test. The reason btw why I bring that test up was because it was the last time he played a test on English soil (and the only test hes played since 2007)

As far as his wicket-taking is concerned, I'd like to see him on a half decent English pitch first, not those dead as a dodo, subcontinental lifeless tracks that we've seen for most of the winter.


.

He opened the bowling...

 

[tooextracool]

He opened the bowling...

Yes I know that, he bowled the first ball of the test match....your point?

 

[zaremba]

It's just that you said "the whole game changed from the moment he bowled his first ball"

 

[GIMH]

Yes I know that, he bowled the first ball of the test match....your point?

How do you change a game that hasn't started?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Yes I know that, he bowled the first ball of the test match....your point?

Think the point was if he bowled the first ball there wasn't a match to change yet.

EDIT: As Mr Z & Cozza said.

 

[zaremba]

Three of us here with itchy typing fingers. Bring on the Lord's Test...

How's your hangover btw GIMH?

 

[GIMH]

Haha, I felt pretty rough this morning tbf. Struggled to get up for work and never left me any time for breakfast. Was busy as hell for the first two hours in work, was dying for water by the time I managed to sit at my desk. Not good.

 

[Burgey]

Couple of reports on the radio here saying Flintoff's knee has flared up. Any talk of that over there?

Nice to get some sleep last night it must be said, after 5 days with little of it.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, Harmison is in the squad because of Freddie's knee. part of me actually thinks that what brumby (or was it z?) said in jest may actually be true - that we're playing that up to keep the crims guessing.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Couple of reports on the radio here saying Flintoff's knee has flared up. Any talk of that over there?

Nice to get some sleep last night it must be said, after 5 days with little of it.

Yeah, the selectors are using it as the pretext to include Harmy in an expanded 14-man squad for HQ.

All too believeable, sadly.

EDIT:

Yeah, Harmison is in the squad because of Freddie's knee. part of me actually thinks that what brumby (or was it z?) said in jest may actually be true - that we're playing that up to keep the crims guessing.

Not guilty, guv.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah, the selectors are using it as the pretext to include Harmy in an expanded 14-man squad for HQ.

All too believeable, sadly.

EDIT:



Not guilty, guv.

Well I hope Flintoff plays. He's one of the more compelling blokes to watch on either team.

 

[marc71178]

On Sidebottom, although its clear also he would be more dangerous to the AUS than Onions. It would be hard to pick him ahead of Onions ATM no doubt. I have my doubts that his injury woes is that bad, i just fear Flower & the selectors are just robotic in their selections right now.

Interesting contradiction there, if it's clear that he's more dangerous, how would it be hard to pick him?

As for being robotic in their selections, I think it's more the fact that they've seen what he's about and he's clearly not fit enough or something (as shown by the fact that in spite of being in the initial 17 man squad, he wasn't then deemed good enough for even the Lions side)