Should Brett Lee be selected for the Ashes?

[scorpiogal]

That's a really old photo. A few years, at least.

Yep, it's about 6-7 years old..I think. He was 25-26 in that pic. Though he's probably back to that size atm, if not a little bigger.

 

[GIMH]

Context is obviously always required, but 40 off 24 balls = less successful than 130 off 150 balls. But the former would be much the better innings, for a team, in a Twenty20.

I do know about Twenty20 though - because I know why I don't like it.

You might know why you don't like it, when was the last time you watched a T20?

 

[pup11]

Well, I haven't read the the entire thread, but I am guessing most of the posters would have said that Lee shouldn't have been picked for this year's Ashes, and I have gotta say, that's fair enough.

I have been a big fan of Brett Lee, he is one of the most likable and wholehearted cricketers one is likely to come across, but too many things are against Lee this time around, for starters, his record on English soil is awful, and add to that, he is justing coming out of an injury and barely has any cricket under his belt in recent times.

The same can be said about Stuey Clark, so therefore the practice games would be really vital to gauge where these two blokes stand in terms of fitness and form, but having said that, because Clark's basics are so strong and simple, he might find it a lot more easier to get back into good bowling rhythm compared to Lee.

 

[four_or_six]

Well, I haven't read the the entire thread, but I am guessing most of the posters would have said that Lee shouldn't have been picked for this year's Ashes, and I have gotta say, that's fair enough.

I have been a big fan of Brett Lee, he is one of the most likable and wholehearted cricketers one is likely to come across, but too many things are against Lee this time around, for starters, his record on English soil is awful, and add to that, he is justing coming out of an injury and barely has any cricket under his belt in recent times.

The same can be said about Stuey Clark, so therefore the practice games would be really vital to gauge where these two blokes stand in terms of fitness and form, but having said that, because Clark's basics are so strong and simple, he might find it a lot more easier to get back into good bowling rhythm compared to Lee.

Totally agree with all that, but the caveat is that Siddle also hasn't played since he was injured, and Hilfenhaus too was injured on the SA tour and rested afterwards. So they too might not come back well into the matches.

In fact, of the four - Siddle, Lee, Clark and Hilfenhaus - Lee has played a lot more competitive cricket since his injury.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Yep, it's about 6-7 years old..I think. He was 25-26 in that pic. Though he's probably back to that size atm, if not a little bigger.

How do you know? We can't even see it in that picture

 

[pup11]

Totally agree with all that, but the caveat is that Siddle also hasn't played since he was injured, and Hilfenhaus too was injured on the SA tour and rested afterwards. So they too might not come back well into the matches.

In fact, of the four - Siddle, Lee, Clark and Hilfenhaus - Lee has played a lot more competitive cricket since his injury.

That's fair enough, but the biggest thing that goes against Lee is that, he has never bowled well in English conditions, and that's simply because the English conditions haven't complimented his style of bowling.

Lee thrives on troubling the batsman with pace and bounce, and that's why he has struggled to do well on dry, slow and low pitches, and those are exactly the type of pitches England are likely to prepare for this year's Ashes series as well, so unless Lee can get the new red ball to swing (which is something he has been unable to do at the best of times) and then get the old ball to reverse, I can't really see him doing that well.

 

[four_or_six]

That's fair enough, but the biggest thing that goes against Lee is that, he has never bowled well in English conditions, and that's simply because the English conditions haven't complimented his style of bowling.

Lee thrives on troubling the batsman with pace and bounce, and that's why he has struggled to do well on dry, slow and low pitches, and those are exactly the type of pitches England are likely to prepare for this year's Ashes series as well, so unless Lee can get the new red ball to swing (which is something he has been unable to do at the best of times) and then get the old ball to reverse, I can't really see him doing that well.

Lee has never bowled well in English conditions. Siddle and Hilfenhaus have never bowled in English conditions. Just playing devil's advocate here.

 

[Matt79]

Lee has never bowled well in English conditions. Siddle and Hilfenhaus have never sucked in English conditions. Just playing devil's advocate here.

Fixed

 

[scorpiogal]

How do you know? We can't even see it in that picture

You want to see it? Cause there's another pic....

 

[scorpiogal]

so unless Lee can get the new red ball to swing (which is something he has been unable to do at the best of times) and then get the old ball to reverse, I can't really see him doing that well.

Was I the only person looking at Lee bowl in Antigua last June? Cause I can clearly remember a red ball swinging and then some.

 

[scorpiogal]

Lee has never bowled well in English conditions. Siddle and Hilfenhaus have never bowled in English conditions. Just playing devil's advocate here.

But surely we don't want the 7 @ 52 man in the team. He couldn't bowl well on helpful pitches ffs.

 

[pup11]

Was I the only person looking at Lee bowl in Antigua last June? Cause I can clearly remember a red ball swinging and then some.

Yup, Lee was reversing the old ball beautifully in that test, but reverse swinging the old red ball is something he has managed to do, every now and then, but he in general struggles to get any sort of conventional swing going with the new red ball, and that's been a real problem for as a fast bowler in the longer format of the game.

 

[pup11]

Lee has never bowled well in English conditions. Siddle and Hilfenhaus have never bowled in English conditions. Just playing devil's advocate here.

The problem with Lee is that he either tends to focus on bowling a fuller length or just bowling short or in the short of good length area most of the times, he bowls very few balls in the good length area in between, now that sort of a thing works if the ball is either swinging or the pitch has got good bounce and carry, this is the reason why Lee has struggled in English and sub-continental conditions.

Siddle and Hilfenhaus might not have played any games in England yet, but they as bowlers work on some very strong basics, of course Lee is much more experienced then them, and he might outbowl them in the practice games, but still, I believe Hilfenhaus and Siddle or even Bollinger' style of bowling is much better suited for English conditions, as compared to Lee'.

 

[scorpiogal]

Yup, Lee was reversing the old ball beautifully in that test, but reverse swinging the old red ball is something he has managed to do, every now and then, but he in general struggles to get any sort of conventional swing going with the new red ball, and that's been a real problem for as a fast bowler in the longer format of the game.

It's a problem with Johnson as well. Anyone who says that he consistently swings any ball, old or new, is simply lying.

Fact is, Lee can swing the ball when the conditions are right, just like he did in Antigua.

 

[scorpiogal]

The problem with Lee is that he either tends to focus on bowling a fuller length or just bowling short or in the short of good length area most of the times, he bowls very few balls in the good length area in between, now that sort of a thing works if the ball is either swinging or the pitch has got good bounce and carry, this is the reason why Lee has struggled in English and sub-continental conditions.

Siddle and Hilfenhaus might not have played any games in England yet, but they as bowlers work on some very strong basics, of course Lee is much more experienced then them, and he might outbowl them in the practice games, but still, I believe Hilfenhaus and Siddle or even Bollinger' style of bowling is much better suited for English conditions, as compared to Lee'.

What is so outstanding about Siddle's bowling style that'll make him a better option than Lee? He doesn't swing the ball much and is a 'hit the deck hard' type and to top that off, he's not as fast.

And Hilfenhaus...well his performance in RSA speaks for itself. He still has a long way to go, IMO.

 

[Burgey]

The problem with Lee is that he either tends to focus on bowling a fuller length or just bowling short or in the short of good length area most of the times, he bowls very few balls in the good length area in between, now that sort of a thing works if the ball is either swinging or the pitch has got good bounce and carry, this is the reason why Lee has struggled in English and sub-continental conditions.

Siddle and Hilfenhaus might not have played any games in England yet, but they as bowlers work on some very strong basics, of course Lee is much more experienced then them, and he might outbowl them in the practice games, but still, I believe Hilfenhaus and Siddle or even Bollinger' style of bowling is much better suited for English conditions, as compared to Lee'.

This was indeed the biggest difference, imo, during his spell of sustained excellence pre-2008 Indian tour.

 

[Jakester1288]

I believe Hilfenhaus and Siddle or even Bollinger' style of bowling is much better suited for English conditions, as compared to Lee'.

I agree.

I would not be disappointed if Johnson, Siddle, Bollinger, Clark was selected for the first test. Nor would I be disappointed if Johnson, Siddle, Clark, Lee or Johnson, Siddle, Clark and Hauritz. However, I don't feel keen on having Hilfenhaus playing in the side. He doesn't seem ready yet, and when he was in form, he wasn't selected, and when he isn't running through line ups he gets picked - similar to David Hussey, when he stops scoring centuries and breaking records, he gets selected.

 

[inbox24]

David Hussey was picked for the wrong format, ODIs. If he was the successor to Damien Martyn, his batting average would be 45-50 right now, and we wouldn't have this number 6 problem. North really isn't a long term option and despite his century, he doesn't have the record of consistency to back up.

 

[Jakester1288]

Yeah, I agree. I was calling for David Hussey to come in for Symonds instead of North - actually come to think of it I was calling for a fit, bowling Watson, then Dave Hussey, then North.

North really isn't a long term option and despite his century, he doesn't have the record of consistency to back up.

Do you mean by his skills or his age? He is younger than Hussey by 2 years, so I'm assuming you mean skills, which I agree with.

 

[scorpiogal]

I agree.

I would not be disappointed if Johnson, Siddle, Bollinger, Clark was selected for the first test. Nor would I be disappointed if Johnson, Siddle, Clark, Lee or Johnson, Siddle, Clark and Hauritz. However, I don't feel keen on having Hilfenhaus playing in the side. He doesn't seem ready yet, and when he was in form, he wasn't selected, and when he isn't running through line ups he gets picked - similar to David Hussey, when he stops scoring centuries and breaking records, he gets selected.

Eh? Bollinger? Buddy, Bollinger wasn't chosen in the 15.