Group E - England, India, South Africa, West Indies

[GIMH]

Oh Please, stop the idiocy and Read the following piece of crap and then tell me if you do not find it insulting :-

I find something really ironic in the fact that you have made about 14 posts complaining about a poster with 2 posts on the whole forum

 

[Sanz]

But it wasn't fair and square in as much as the DL clearly doesn't work for T20. Adamc has already explained why the term 'cheated' was thrown around.

Stop playing with the words and tailgating.

 

[Adamc]

Oh Please, stop the idiocy and Read the following piece of crap and then tell me if you do not find it insulting :-

I was responding specifically to your assertion that:

And it is indeed disrespectful to the WI team and fans say that 'WI have only 2 batsman' etc

It's not disrespectful to say 'WI have only 2 batsmen'. It might be inaccurate, but not disrespectful.

The post you quoted may well be disrespectful (I haven't read it), but the line you quoted isn't in any way disrespectful of itself.

 

[Sanz]

I find something really ironic in the fact that you have made about 14 posts complaining about a poster with 2 posts on the whole forum

And I find it ironic that you continue to misquote and mis-represent my statement over and over again yet not a single word against the crap uttered by another English fan.

 

[GIMH]

Whatever Sanz, let's not make the thread about me and you, I'm off to bed

 

[Beamer]

I agree with all the England fans that D & L was unfair. But to say England completely outplayed Windies is rubbish, they changed their approach to the chase because of the reduced overs.

May I also remind some people that England won the ODI series in the Caribbean on the back of two heavily shortened matches, one of which was a ridiculously truncated D & L chase.

We were robbed then, you have been robbed now. Swings and roundabouts as the English would say. Having said that, Windies are the better 20/20 side IMHO, we have escaped two groups of death and have been competitive in every single game, whereas England have been up and down and have an extremely flawed batting lineup, so we deserve our place in the Semi-final.

 

[Swervy]

May I also remind some people that England won the ODI series in the Caribbean on the back of two heavily shortened matches, one of which was a ridiculously truncated D & L chase.

I think the point is that using the current algorithms for 50 over games or whatever do not translate well to Twenty20. There needs to be an adjustment. Before the WI innings started, it was plainly obvious that a target of 80 (with a full compliment of 10 wickets to play with) was probably 10-12 runs short of what it really should have been.

 

[Beamer]

Quite frankly the post that said we only have 2 batsmen and are not worthy winners is idiotic and full of sour grapes.

We have thrashed ENgland in 20-20 on a number of occasions and are the better side in this format. Gayle, Bravo, Sarwan, Shiv and Ramdin are all excellent batsman in this format while Simmons has also had a very good tournament.

 

[Beamer]

I think the point is that using the current algorithms for 50 over games or whatever do not translate well to Twenty20. There needs to be an adjustment. Before the WI innings started, it was plainly obvious that a target of 80 (with a full compliment of 10 wickets to play with) was probably 10-12 runs short of what it really should have been.

IMHO it does not work well full stop, as shown by numerous 50 over matches in the past.

 

[Swervy]

IMHO it does not work well full stop, as shown by numerous 50 over matches in the past.

its not ideal, probably because of the way the 50 over game is evolving, but over a longer game, the flaws seem to iron out a bit more.

 

[Swervy]

Quite frankly the post that said we only have 2 batsmen and are not worthy winners is idiotic and full of sour grapes.

We have thrashed ENgland in 20-20 on a number of occasions and are the better side in this format. Gayle, Bravo, Sarwan, Shiv and Ramdin are all excellent batsman in this format while Simmons has also had a very good tournament.

got to agree, whilst I do England were on the **** end of this particular stick, on balance over the tournament, WI are plainly the more deserving side to have a shot at the finals.

 

[ret]

Congratulations to SA and WI for topping this group! They appear to be the fav to play the final as well considering Pak's mercurial nature and SL relatively weak batting or NZ inconsistency .... Also Pak and SL batsmen could be subjected to the type of bowling Indians got so it will be interesting to see how they deal with that

 

[zaremba]

I agree with all the England fans that D & L was unfair. But to say England completely outplayed Windies is rubbish, they changed their approach to the chase because of the reduced overs.

May I also remind some people that England won the ODI series in the Caribbean on the back of two heavily shortened matches, one of which was a ridiculously truncated D & L chase.

We were robbed then, you have been robbed now. Swings and roundabouts as the English would say. Having said that, Windies are the better 20/20 side IMHO, we have escaped two groups of death and have been competitive in every single game, whereas England have been up and down and have an extremely flawed batting lineup, so we deserve our place in the Semi-final.

Agree with just about all of this; and I suspect most other England fans would too.

 

[Smudge]

Hard luck to the English fans, and well done to the Windies, regardless of the match situation.

That said, I couldn't help but having a smile on my face after reading the bitter bile spouting forth from this poster's keyboard:

England DL-****ed out of the tournament.

Quite simple.

West Indies don't deserve to be in the semis. England do.

Yes England batted badly at the end, but they still outplayed West Indies.

England have been totally cheated out of this game by a completely farcical DL total. That total implies 82-0 after 11 overs is par.

COMPLETE JOKE.

England *were* cheated out of the game by D/L. I don't give a toss what people say, England outplayed West Indies yet they've lost the match. It's not West Indies' fault obviously and they may well have played better if they were chasing it off 20 overs, but they weren't and you can only go on what happened - England played better, they deserved to win, they didn't because of D/L - nothing else.

 

[tooextracool]

Think you're just misunderstanding the phrase. England 'being cheated out of a win' is not equivalent to 'the West Indies beat England by cheating'. It just means that they should have won or deserved to win, but didn't for whatever reason (usually relating to bad fortune). If for example India were dominating Australia in a Test match but it was rained off, you might say that India were cheated out of a win.

(FTR, I don't necessarily think England should have won, just that the D/L target was unfair.)

Thats a new definition of the word cheating for me. I would think firstly that you cant be cheated out by an inanimate object such as the weather, and I would also think that cheating involves some form of trickery. Both teams knew exactly what they were getting into before the game, DWL has been around for ages and eweve known for donkey's years that it favors the team batting 2nd in twenty20. England won the toss and chose to bat, which was their own fault, everybody including the neighbours dog knew that rain was predicted and they still chose to bat out of fear because they hadnt batted 2nd all tournament.

Did the better team today win? Maybe not, but the word 'cheat' is certainly not applicable in this context IMO because no one was deceived.

 

[tooextracool]

I think the point is that using the current algorithms for 50 over games or whatever do not translate well to Twenty20. There needs to be an adjustment. Before the WI innings started, it was plainly obvious that a target of 80 (with a full compliment of 10 wickets to play with) was probably 10-12 runs short of what it really should have been.

It takes bloody 3.5 hours for a game. I cant believe that theres no way that these games can be moved around. If it rains today play it tomorrow, or if rain is forecasted play the game earlier. Theres absolutely no way anyone would want to see a game less than 20 overs long, its a joke and a half.

 

[aussie]

It takes bloody 3.5 hours for a game. I cant believe that theres no way that these games can be moved around. If it rains today play it tomorrow, or if rain is forecasted play the game earlier. Theres absolutely no way anyone would want to see a game less than 20 overs long, its a joke and a half.

Real talk. But at the end of the day, ENG were lucky to get this far with the imbalanced team they had. So no complains really, although one can argue WI could have still folded in a longer chase.

 

[tooextracool]

What a surprise. Hussain straight onto the Mascheranas bandwagon at the end of the game. Correct by questioning the non-selection of Napier. He really should have been in the side. Better T20 bowler than Anderson, and a better batsman than Mascheranas. Amazed he didn't get a game.

Just on Napier, Ive only really seen him bat once and maybe I am missing something here, but his record is absolutely dismal. Maybe I am getting this wrong, but outside of his 150 odd has he ever done anything worth talking about in twenty20 with the bat?

 

[Burgey]

Hard luck to the English fans, and well done to the Windies, regardless of the match situation.

That said, I couldn't help but having a smile on my face after reading the bitter bile spouting forth from this poster's keyboard:

Indeed.

He should have been grateful they didn't have to play Netherlands again.

 

[gvenkat]

England *were* cheated out of the game by D/L. I don't give a toss what people say, England outplayed West Indies yet they've lost the match. It's not West Indies' fault obviously and they may well have played better if they were chasing it off 20 overs, but they weren't and you can only go on what happened - England played better, they deserved to win, they didn't because of D/L - nothing else.

How do you say England out played or played better than Windies? They did not hit a single boundary for their last nine overs when teams go berserk. Was that out playing a team? If any that was at best stalling.

With that start from KP and Ravi England should have ended up on 180-190.. But their piss poor middle order limped to 150 and thanks to broad they crossed 160.

The D/L is not fair and England probably got the rough end of the stick. You cannot defend a small total in lesser number of overs which is a fair point. Giving the benefit of the doubt to the windies they would have chased down a total of 90 with comfort. So stop crying foul and accept England's defeat. As Upper cut said England were denied a contest but they did not outplay anyone.