New Zealand- could they just win it?

[Pratters]

New Zealand are the third favourites behind South Africa and India.

I see the list as below -

South Africa
India
New Zealand
Australia
West Indies
Sri Lanka
Pakistan
England
Bangladesh

 

[Zinzan]

Bond, the only NZ cricketer in the last few years who is genuinely world class. Vettori only squeaks in if you restrict it to limited overs.

Probably a fair call that, although both Ryder & Taylor have the potential to be world-class IMHO.

Incidentally Scaly, question for you - How many English-born players have been genuinely world class in the last few years? Flintoff and ???

 

[Scaly piscine]

Probably a fair call that, although both Ryder & Taylor have the potential to be world-class IMHO.

Incidentally Scaly, question for you - How many English-born players have been genuinely world class in the last few years? Flintoff and ???

KP. A few others could potentially get there. In 5 years one or two probably will have.

Taylor doesn't have the potential to be world class yet. He's a guy who has to take big risks to score, just a random player who NZ fans will blame everything under the sun when he fails and proclaim him as god when he comes off (largely against mediocre bowling on a road). Haven't seen much of Ryder yet but he's a lot of things to do to make it. The fact that he's in that condition and has the problems that he has and still looks a class above the rest of the NZ side tells you that he has talent and that NZ as a whole don't. That again brings me back to why NZ are very unlikely to win anything, they can't raise their game to the levels that most other teams can.

 

[Athlai]

Taylor almost always fails when the bowlings easy its one of his worst faults. He just loses concentration and does something stupid.

In fact I don't think he played better than when he was in Australia in hard conditions with the team falling to pieces around him. He really had to stick his head down, though often got after breaks in play due to his aforementioned problems with concentration.

 

[GGG]

KP. A few others could potentially get there. In 5 years one or two probably will have.

Taylor doesn't have the potential to be world class yet. He's a guy who has to take big risks to score, just a random player who NZ fans will blame everything under the sun when he fails and proclaim him as god when he comes off (largely against mediocre bowling on a road). Haven't seen much of Ryder yet but he's a lot of things to do to make it. The fact that he's in that condition and has the problems that he has and still looks a class above the rest of the NZ side tells you that he has talent and that NZ as a whole don't. That again brings me back to why NZ are very unlikely to win anything, they can't raise their game to the levels that most other teams can.

So zero English born players then. "proclaim him as god when he comes off (largely against mediocre bowling on a road).", haha he has scored most of his test runs vs England and averages 50 vs that mob of mediocre bowlers, 64 v India, 40 v AUS but only 13 against the power house bowling attack of bangladesh .

 

[Scaly piscine]

No point quoting averages like that when he's played such a small number of Tests against most teams.

He's the sort of player that will get a runs of low scores if the pitches do a fair bit. He could also really fill his boots on flat pitches. That's what helps him in limited overs games.

At present he averages under 40 in Test cricket, which isn't flash.

 

[Howsie]

No point quoting averages like that when he's played such a small number of Tests against most teams.

He's the sort of player that will get a runs of low scores if the pitches do a fair bit. He could also really fill his boots on flat pitches. That's what helps him in limited overs games.

At present he averages under 40 in Test cricket, which isn't flash.

And like you said he hasn't played that many test matches. I agree with what your saying about Taylor, but he is one of the best young batsmen in world cricket.

I'm actually interested at who you think are some of the England players are that can become world class, you named one guy Kevin Pietersen. Who are the rest.

 

[superkingdave]

Well my earlier view was that they would make the semis and no further. Still think thats the case, but I'm more confident of them reaching the semis given they are only going to have to finish above two of Ireland/Bangladesh/Pakistan/Holland to get there. Then likely to get either SA or India who I think should account for them but you never know, certainly it might work against them if they don't have any particularly challenging games in the super 8's (the other team is SL or WI, SL aren't in the best of form and WI can be amazingly good or amazingly crap)

 

[R_D]

Yeah NZ certainly do have a big chance of winning this.
I think South Africa is the team to beat.... they look good all over the park but wasn't that the case last time as well?

 

[Scaly piscine]

And like you said he hasn't played that many test matches. I agree with what your saying about Taylor, but he is one of the best young batsmen in world cricket.

I'm actually interested at who you think are some of the England players are that can become world class, you named one guy Kevin Pietersen. Who are the rest.

Taylor hasn't played many against individual sides, but as a whole he's played enough Tests to get a general idea that his game is more suited to limited overs cricket and flat wickets.

Of the guys who're playing Test cricket now Bopara, Broad, Swann and maybe Anderson could become world class. The likelihood is only one of them will and it'll probably be Broad.

 

[Howsie]

Taylor hasn't played many against individual sides, but as a whole he's played enough Tests to get a general idea that his game is more suited to limited overs cricket and flat wickets.

Of the guys who're playing Test cricket now Bopara, Broad, Swann and maybe Anderson could become world class. The likelihood is only one of them will and it'll probably be Broad.

Broad's played enough tests to suggest his bowling is more suited to limited overs cricket and green/seaming decks.

 

[Zinzan]

KP. A few others could potentially get there. In 5 years one or two probably will have.

.

For a scrabble champ, you don't read too well, I said English-born players, so KP is out on this one sorry, try again

 

[TT Boy]

Yeah NZ certainly do have a big chance of winning this.
I think South Africa is the team to beat.... they look good all over the park but wasn't that the case last time as well?

No.

 

[Scaly piscine]

For a scrabble champ, you don't read too well, I said English-born players, so KP is out on this one sorry, try again

Sorry my mind skipped over the pointless elements to your question.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Broad's played enough tests to suggest his bowling is more suited to limited overs cricket and green/seaming decks.

The problem with him Tests was that his pace was pedestrian and he didn't utilise available movement. In the last month or so however he's been getting up to and over 90mph, if he continues developing he should maintain that sort of pace for longer and generally speaking he's coming on leaps and bounds. Hopefully he'll also get better at extracting movement and he has a lot of batting ability too.

 

[Athlai]

Surely he's due for the typical career threatening injury soon though.

 

[superkingdave]

Surely he's due for the typical career threatening injury soon though.

Broken nail?

 

[Zinzan]

Sorry my mind skipped over the pointless elements to your question.

Sorry, still waiting for your answer to the question. You've happily stated that Bond is the only genuine world-class player NZ have had in the last few years, so I ask you again, name any genuinely World-class English-born players aside from Flintoff in the last few years.

My point being, its ain't really a lot different, apart from the fact England have around 15 times the population of NZ. The fact remains, NZ have a better limited over team than England and have so for a good few years now (and if you still can't see that given just about every other Englishman I know has conceded NZ is a better limited overs side than England, then you are well-truly blind) and England have the better test side.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Sorry, still waiting for your answer to the question. You've happily stated that Bond is the only genuine world-class player NZ have had in the last few years, so I ask you again, name any genuinely World-class English-born players aside from Flintoff in the last few years.

My point being, its ain't really a lot different, apart from the fact England have around 15 times the population of NZ. The fact remains, NZ have a better limited over team than England and have so for a good few years now (and if you still can't see that given just about every other Englishman I know has conceded NZ is a better limited overs side than England, then you are well-truly blind) and England have the better test side.

Who gives a crap if NZ actually turn up for meaningless OD series? Neither have won the WC so as far as proper competition goes they're both equally useless. England are still more likely to win one at some point than NZ, because total mediocrity doesn't beat the world's best when it matters and England are far more likely to find the quality required than NZ.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Who gives a crap if NZ actually turn up for meaningless OD series? Neither have won the WC so as far as proper competition goes they're both equally useless. England are still more likely to win one at some point than NZ, because total mediocrity doesn't beat the world's best when it matters and England are far more likely to find the quality required than NZ.

Delusional as always.
You moan and groan over NZ fans being optimistic about their teams chance of winning something, yet at the same time you feel that your team (England) has a better chance than them.

Hmmmm, I wonder who is being more realistic.....