New Zealand- could they just win it?

[KiWiNiNjA]

Is it?

Indeed. Not laughable at all.
Although when was the last time Oram actually played an international match?

When he was in form, he certainly was destructive, but most of the time he has been injured. Morkel on the other hand has been playing internationals, and being as destructive as Oram was at his peak.

Just to add to SP's analysis.
Morkel had a bad IPL just like Oram. And Ryder hardly got a chance.

It's pretty hilarious that all the South African players stats "should" get better, yet all the New Zealand players stats are flattering.

But, what ever makes you feel better about yourself, I suppose.

 

[Uppercut]

Albie Morkel bats at 8 for SA doesn't he? Also Orams test average is better by far than his FC one. Albie hasn't played a lot of tests yet, so who knows where he'll end up but atm the odds are easliy stacked in favour of Oram.

If I had to pick one to bat for my life, I'd pick Oram over Albie.

Albie Morkel comes in when South Africa need a hitter in ODIs. Could be at 5, could be at 9. That's his role, and it doesn't mean he can't do anything else. If you're referring to tests, he does indeed bat at 8. Exactly where Oram would bat for South Africa. If they picked him.

As test cricket goes, Oram's infinitely more proven than Morkel. I'll stop short of saying he's better, I'd definitely back Morkel to be averaging more than 37 after 31 tests. Were i to choose one to bat for my life, I'd take Morkel on the grounds that Oram may have to retire hurt with an itchy eyebrow.

It's also starting to feel like quite a while since Oram made runs.

 

[Howsie]

Woo, woo, woo. When arguing with Scaly, don't help him by talking tests when we're talking 20/20.

Well from the five posts I've seen him make I would guess he doesn't rate too many NZ'ers. And I have no problem with that, but to say a player will get worse is a litlle harsh.

 

[Athlai]

"You're as cold as ice! Willing to sacrifice--"​

 

[Howsie]

Albie Morkel comes in when South Africa need a hitter in ODIs. Could be at 5, could be at 9. That's his role, and it doesn't mean he can't do anything else. If you're referring to tests, he does indeed bat at 8. Exactly where Oram would bat for South Africa. If they picked him.

As test cricket goes, Oram's infinitely more proven than Morkel. I'll stop short of saying he's better, I'd definitely back Morkel to be averaging more than 37 after 31 tests. Were i to choose one to bat for my life, I'd take Morkel on the grounds that Oram may have to retire hurt with an itchy eyebrow.

It's also starting to feel like quite a while since Oram made runs.

Well since it's hard to compare them in test cricket lets have a look at there ODI stats.

Cricinfo - Players and Officials - Albie Morkel

And his 97 was against Zimbabwe, I'll also throw in and say he hasn't even scored a List-A century, so where is he batting for his State.

http://content.cricinfo.com/newzealand/content/player/38062.html

Oram has a strike-rate which is a lot lower then Morkels, but he has scored 10 more 50's and a 100. But he has also had about 70 more innings. Morkel is probaly a better striker, but Oram is the better batsmen. That I am 100 percent certain of.

 

[Flem274*]

Albie Morkel comes in when South Africa need a hitter in ODIs. Could be at 5, could be at 9. That's his role, and it doesn't mean he can't do anything else. If you're referring to tests, he does indeed bat at 8. Exactly where Oram would bat for South Africa. If they picked him.

As test cricket goes, Oram's infinitely more proven than Morkel. I'll stop short of saying he's better, I'd definitely back Morkel to be averaging more than 37 after 31 tests. Were i to choose one to bat for my life, I'd take Morkel on the grounds that Oram may have to retire hurt with an itchy eyebrow.

It's also starting to feel like quite a while since Oram made runs.

Oram would not bat behind Boucher for a start.

Smith
DeVilliers
Amla
Kallis
Duminy
Prince
Oram
Boucher
etc

SA have a purely awesome allrounder in Kallis to afford to have an allrounder in the top four, so that means Oram would be bumped down for that extra batsman.

If Albie was picked for NZ, he'd bat at six, I'd be willing to bet he'd manage a Franklin and shuffle down to 8/9 (depending on where Vettori puts himself).

Franklin has a century in SA and a ridiculously good season with the bat in NZ FC and maybe a good one in England (haven't followed his batting there), I wouldn't bat him any higher than 9 in ours (McCullum 7, Vettori 8)

 

[King Pietersen]

NZ may have a good shout in the next T20 WC, but I can't see them winning this one. McCullum's in poor form, Ryder's still yet to prove his immense talent in T20 cricket, Guptill's pretty average, Taylor's got superb talent but is way too inconsistent, Oram's always injured, and the bowling attack is too reliant on Vettori. Mills, Butler, Franklin, O'Brien, Oram, McCullum, Styris and Diamanti are very meh bowlers. They're ok, but I don't think they're good enough to restrict and take consistent wickets, even Jacob Oram, who is normally incredibly economical goes at 9's in T20 cricket.

They may prove me wrong, and perform well as underdogs, but I can't see them winning it personally. Will be India, Australia or South Africa for mine.

 

[Athlai]

You have never seen Guptill bat before have you.

Guy is currently in top form as is Taylor.

 

[Flem274*]

If we're talking 20/20 bowling then KP has a point (bar Butler). If he's talking limited overs in general, Mills is world class.

I don't think we'll win though, we'll make the semis though.

 

[Howsie]

Guptill's pretty average

He is one of the best young ODI batsmen in the world, have you seen him play.He has only played three 20/20INT's but if you saw the last Chappel-Hadlee game you would know how quick he can score. I think he scored 66 of about 32 that night. Guptill will be one of our better batsmen in this world cup.

 

[Flem274*]

He's the only opener post Richardson that I actualy feel confident will be more than the 35 average types we've been trying to find.

 

[King Pietersen]

You have never seen Guptill bat before have you.

Guy is currently in top form as is Taylor.

I have actually. I saw quite abit of the NZ-India series. I was just never particularly impressed by Guptill. He was decent enough, but I can't see him consistently dominating attacks, although saying that his innings against India at Christchurch was very nice. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I can't see him being one of the leading run scorers in the competition. He'll have a decent enough competition though I reckon.

Regarding Mills, I was talking about him as a T20 bowler, not an ODi bowler, where I do think he's done very well. He is a handy lower order hitter though, which could come in handy, I'm just not convinced he'll be particularly effective with the ball. Butler could go well though, he certainly seems like a strike bowler. I'm not convinced by his ability to contain early on, but he'll more than likely pick up a few wickets, same with Iain O'Brien. They'll both pick up a few wickets but I can't see either keeping things tight, but I guess with Vettori almost certain to keep the run scoring down to 6 an over from his 4, all you need from the 2 openers is a few wickets.

I think he Kiwi's will have a decent competition, but I can't honestly see them winning it, the Semi Finals is probably the best they can hope for I think, same with England. They could both be real contenders in the next one though!

 

[Flem274*]

I have actually. I saw quite abit of the NZ-India series. I was just never particularly impressed by Guptill. He was decent enough, but I can't see him consistently dominating attacks, although saying that his innings against India at Christchurch was very nice. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I can't see him being one of the leading run scorers in the competition. He'll have a decent enough competition though I reckon.

Regarding Mills, I was talking about him as a T20 bowler, not an ODi bowler, where I do think he's done very well. He is a handy lower order hitter though, which could come in handy, I'm just not convinced he'll be particularly effective with the ball. Butler could go well though, he certainly seems like a strike bowler. I'm not convinced by his ability to contain early on, but he'll more than likely pick up a few wickets, same with Iain O'Brien. They'll both pick up a few wickets but I can't see either keeping things tight, but I guess with Vettori almost certain to keep the run scoring down to 6 an over from his 4, all you need from the 2 openers is a few wickets.

I think he Kiwi's will have a decent competition, but I can't honestly see them winning it, the Semi Finals is probably the best they can hope for I think, same with England. They could both be real contenders in the next one though!

Personally think we'll make it to the semis and thats it. The thread was a pleasant surprise though.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

NZ may have a good shout in the next T20 WC, but I can't see them winning this one. McCullum's in poor form, Ryder's still yet to prove his immense talent in T20 cricket, Guptill's pretty average, Taylor's got superb talent but is way too inconsistent....

McCullum.... Out of form for most of the IPL, but came into form at the end right in time for the WC.
Ryder.... Wasn't really given a chance in the Bangalore side. Was always in and out, always playing for his place in the side. Got a couple of jaffas first up.
Guptil.... In ominous form. 61(42) and 45(42) in the WC warm-ups.
Taylor.... Got into form near the end of the IPL, just like McCullum. 81(33), 46(50), 25(12), 1(4), 17*(12) in his last 5 isn't exactly inconsistent. And add to that 74(36) today.

It's a better time as any.

 

[Flem274*]

wierd seeing those scores. A few years ago that would be called impossible. Well okay not impossible, but tricky.

20/20 is bringing some pretty interesting strike rates in.

 

[Scaly piscine]

He is one of the best young ODI batsmen in the world, have you seen him play.He has only played three 20/20INT's but if you saw the last Chappel-Hadlee game you would know how quick he can score. I think he scored 66 of about 32 that night. Guptill will be one of our better batsmen in this world cup.

NZ fans say stuff like this all the time though. If I listened to them apparently you have Gilchrist mark 2 opening the batting along with Bradman 1 in Ryder, one of the best young batsmen that no-one outside of New Zealand has heard of, Bradman 2 in Taylor. This brilliant all-rounder who if not for injuries would average 50 with the bat and 20 with the ball, but of course it's all injuries holding back his awesomeness. Then there's Styris of course, merely a brilliant batsman who's a good medium pacer. Oh and lower down you've got all these good bowlers and throw in Vettori a godlike finger spinner. Hell of a lot of talent for 4 million people.

 

[Flem274*]

NZ fans say stuff like this all the time though. If I listened to them apparently you have Gilchrist mark 2 opening the batting along with Bradman 1 in Ryder, one of the best young batsmen that no-one outside of New Zealand has heard of, Bradman 2 in Taylor. This brilliant all-rounder who if not for injuries would average 50 with the bat and 20 with the ball, but of course it's all injuries holding back his awesomeness. Then there's Styris of course, merely a brilliant batsman who's a good medium pacer. Oh and lower down you've got all these good bowlers and throw in Vettori a godlike finger spinner. Hell of a lot of talent for 4 million people.

Haha, epicfail. Sorry, never heard anyone call Taylor or Ryder the next Bradman. McCullum has naturally been compared to gilchrist, and some have said that he could possibly equal him or get near him in ODIs, but haven't heard it for tests. So you could argue that one, though at one stage he was playing like the guy but as expected, it didn't last long. Also I want to find the person that thinks Oram will average 20 in tests with the ball, because then I can laugh at them.

A+ for effort though.

 

[Howsie]

NZ fans say stuff like this all the time though. If I listened to them apparently you have Gilchrist mark 2 opening the batting along with Bradman 1 in Ryder, one of the best young batsmen that no-one outside of New Zealand has heard of, Bradman 2 in Taylor. This brilliant all-rounder who if not for injuries would average 50 with the bat and 20 with the ball, but of course it's all injuries holding back his awesomeness. Then there's Styris of course, merely a brilliant batsman who's a good medium pacer. Oh and lower down you've got all these good bowlers and throw in Vettori a godlike finger spinner. Hell of a lot of talent for 4 million people.

 

[99*]

NZ fans say stuff like this all the time though. If I listened to them apparently you have Gilchrist mark 2 opening the batting along with Bradman 1 in Ryder, one of the best young batsmen that no-one outside of New Zealand has heard of, Bradman 2 in Taylor. This brilliant all-rounder who if not for injuries would average 50 with the bat and 20 with the ball, but of course it's all injuries holding back his awesomeness. Then there's Styris of course, merely a brilliant batsman who's a good medium pacer. Oh and lower down you've got all these good bowlers and throw in Vettori a godlike finger spinner. Hell of a lot of talent for 4 million people.

Oh **** off you git. You won't find any New Zealanders with a basic knowledge of cricket that will say McCullum is the next Gilchrist or that he will end up anything like Gilchrist, we all know how amazing and freakish he was and we hope, one day that McCullum emulate that ability but we are not deluded enough to say he is anywhere near as good as Gilchrist.

As for Ryder and Taylor being Bradman 1 and 2, why don't you have take a good large dose of shut-the-****-up. Ryder and Taylor are good batsmen, both on their day able to win matches for NZ, most sane people can see that. Anyone that thinks Ryder or Taylor are near the class of, or ever will be the class of Bradman should be hung, drawn and quartered and barred from ever speaking about cricket again.

We don't have the talent countries like Australia, South Africa, India or even England have, but it's a tribute to how hard those players work that we even come close to winning games let alone series. And if you feel we over-rate our players then you can go and get ******, it's our role as fans of the NZ cricket team to rate them when ****-wits like yourself come out of the shadows to run down their chances and ability based on nothing.

 

[Flem274*]

99* has the idea.

99*IsMyHero