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ICL Releases Players
- Thread starter Polo23
- Start date
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
It's certainly no-one's place to tell them to stop. They can obviously do as they wish. I'm simply giving what I see as the most sensible course of action. To act with heart over head is hardly a sin.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
I'd obviously love to see Tuffey back in the NZ Test team (not ODIs mind), though whether he'll amount to anything more than the utter waste of talent he so far has is, I think, doubtful. Vincent, though, they were so much better-off when he waved goodbye. Ditto Hamish Marshall. NZ can do without these sorts of nothing players who they keep going back to.
Flem274*
123/5
Yeah! Lets pick a useless fast bowler that couldn't bowl in a straight line if he tried! An attack of McClennaghan, Bennet, Sherlock and Davis is exactly what we need!
Tuffey pre-injury was living proof you don't need to be 140+ to be an excellent test bowler.
You might have heard of Glenn McGrath, Shaun Pollock, Stuart Clark? Yes? How about Sid Barnes? They were 130+ for very significant portions of their careers.
Heard of Sami, Amjad Khan? They bowl express, and they suck. In fact the attack listed above would struggle to do worse, though I'm sure they'd try very hard.
Jungle Jumbo
International Vice-Captain
Lou Vincent is playing club cricket in the Cheshire Premier and hasn't made a fifty yet to my knowledge...
Howsie
Cricketer Of The Year
Tuffey was always average, he was just extremely lucky to be playing on green pitches. He was the best bowler in domestic cricket wasn't he, so was Southee last year and he is very similar to Tuffey and look what happened to him.
Flem274*
123/5
Um, no.
For a start, I point you in the direction of our tour of india in 03, where he bowled well on unresponsive wickets. Took a fair few too.
Howsie
Cricketer Of The Year
Yep I just had a look at his stats in 2003 and he did pretty well over there, maybe I could be wrong about Tuffey being useless if he was to ever come back and play for us. But it's just my opinion, and besides Flem you know I like quick bowlers anyway so I'm always going to be baised against a player like Tuffey.
Flem274*
123/5
Its fine to like quick bowlers. I love Bond and am hopeful for Butler in limited overs now he has some control. Also rate Wagner, hell, even think if McClennaghan learns to bowl in a straight line he could be decent. But liking quick bowlers is no reason to all of a sudden hate the slower ones. Manee is a member who loves the quicks, yet he has nothing against the slower ones.
Howsie
Cricketer Of The Year
It's not that I don't like slower ones it's just the way test cricket and every other form of cricket is going every team needs a out and out quick bowler to lead the pack. I guess that has always been the case but look at the top teams, Australia has Johnson, India has Sharma, and South Africa has Steyn. I guess I just want NZ to get someone with genuine pace, like a Sherlock, or McClennaghan, or Davis but they all seem to get injured. I'm perfectly fine with 130-135 bowlers as long as they can keep it tight, and there is a place for them in the team. But you can't have four bowler all bowling the same pace, it just doesn't work too well.
Flem274*
123/5
Depends what they can do. McGrath, Pollock etc render their pace irrelevant. The best bowlers are the clinical ones that can get some swing and seam and always have a card to play up their sleeve.
Howsie
Cricketer Of The Year
Well I'm just trying to think at the moment is there anyone in world cricket that is around the 130-135 that is a world class bowler, except for Stuart Clark. Because I can't think of anyone.
Flem274*
123/5
Kinda depends. A lot of bowlers use that as a comfort zone but can crank it up to high 130s-low 140s when they want to. Examples from NZ would be O'Brien, Martin, Franklin and Gillespie (Mills can even do it, just not for long).
Tuffey was the same iirc. Guys that operate solely at that pace are...Oram?
So basically how specific do you want that?
Howsie
Cricketer Of The Year
Well I would classify O'Brien and Martin as 140 bowlers, Franklin would be 135 I guess. But yeah I'm talking about that range I guess, Clark can crank it up to 140 sometimes too. So is there any world class bowlers at the 130-140 range.
TT Boy
Hall of Fame Member
Currently out but Mohammed Asif proved that pace wasn’t everything when you can seam the ball both ways.
Flem274*
123/5
Clark obv. Anderson is 140 I think so he's out, Zaheer. Jmmy could be but thats unlikely now he thinks he's a batsman. Southee its too early to say, Vaas has just left, Sidebottom if he ever gets out of hospital could be.
ATM, there's **** all. Most international bowlers can hit the high 130s, low 140s though, which isn't express, thats nippy. I appreciate that with flat pitches nowadays quicks force the issue more, but in the 2000s we've had Pollock and McGrath as the greats, Clark with a good record but not many games, and some guys that were just really good such as Vaas, Hoggard, our buddy Tuffey and some other blokes I'm bound to have forgotten (there's always at least one). And plenty of merely decent ones.
So the Fast Medium brigade are fine, the Medium Fasts can be iffy, and probably more suited to favourable conditions unless they have some kickass control and variation, which is where Mills needs to work on (well not control, but variation) for after the new ball loses its shine.
EDIT: Asif, knew there'd be one.
ATM, there's **** all. Most international bowlers can hit the high 130s, low 140s though, which isn't express, thats nippy. I appreciate that with flat pitches nowadays quicks force the issue more, but in the 2000s we've had Pollock and McGrath as the greats, Clark with a good record but not many games, and some guys that were just really good such as Vaas, Hoggard, our buddy Tuffey and some other blokes I'm bound to have forgotten (there's always at least one). And plenty of merely decent ones.
So the Fast Medium brigade are fine, the Medium Fasts can be iffy, and probably more suited to favourable conditions unless they have some kickass control and variation, which is where Mills needs to work on (well not control, but variation) for after the new ball loses its shine.
EDIT: Asif, knew there'd be one.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Can you think of many that aren't around that mark that are either?
Simple truth is there aren't that many good bowlers around currently. 150kph or 130kph.