Saeed Ajmal reported for chucking

[chaminda_00]

What if it ends up being every year or two. A player in theory could be tested and re-tested 10 times in their careers. Would become a pretty pointless exercise if they just kept coming back with results showing their under 15. Personally after two, maybe three that should be it for that player. You can't keep proving yourself over and over again. Would become stupid.

 

[four_or_six]

What if it ends up being every year or two. A player in theory could be tested and re-tested 10 times in their careers. Would become a pretty pointless exercise if they just kept coming back with results showing their under 15. Personally after two, maybe three that should be it for that player. You can't keep proving yourself over and over again. Would become stupid.

You have to have the umpires/match referees make sure you follow every other rule throughout your career rather than just for the first couple of years, I don't see why this one is an exception.

 

[chaminda_00]

You have to have the umpires/match referees make sure you follow every other rule throughout your career rather than just for the first couple of years, I don't see why this one is an exception.

With this rule though, how well can an umpire/referee really enforce. If they continue to believe that a bowler is throwing, but the tests keep coming back showing they are under 15 degrees. Surely that is enough evidence to show that their ruling abilty (their naked eye) isn't sufficient for that bowler's action.

 

[Son Of Coco]

With this rule though, how well can an umpire/referee really enforce. If they continue to believe that a bowler is throwing, but the tests keep coming back showing they are under 15 degrees. Surely that is enough evidence to show that their ruling abilty (their naked eye) isn't sufficient for that bowler's action.

It doesn't prove that though, all it proves is that at the time of testing they were under...you can't draw any other conclusions from it except that maybe they're under in the game too. Until they can be tested as such it means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Which is why they should be tested again if there are any doubts.

To say they should never be tested again is to assume a bowling action remains the same throughout a career. That's clearly not the case.

You're right in saying the umpire can't enforce the rule, but that's something that needs to be addressed. If we get into the habit of testing a player once or twice and saying 'Well now he's cleared for his career' how to we come back from that? If we do end up with technology that can somehow measure in real-time people will then ask why we need it.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Maybe it's time for a moratorium on the doosra as a delivery? It seems that pretty much anyone who bowls it either gets extremely close to or actually exceeds the tolerance limits.

Just thought I'd repose this in light of Botha being banned from bowling said delivery.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Just thought I'd repose this in light of Botha being banned from bowling said delivery.

Yeah, I still don't think banning a delivery is the way to go. Just test them when it looks dodgy, it's not inconceivable that people can bowl it at some stage without pushing the limits. Maybe it would be an idea to get it tested before you bowl it in a match...

 

[Richard]

It's perfectly conceivable that people can bowl it without crossing the limit - the likes of Prasanna, Saqlain and Harbhajan did. Clearly, though, it takes plenty of skill and those with the skill to do it should not be prevented from doing so by the lack of skill of those who can't.

In any case, it's impossible to ban a certain delivery because there is, after all, no definition of what constitutes a delivery. Each bowler is slightly different.

 

[vic_orthdox]

It's perfectly conceivable that people can bowl it without crossing the limit - the likes of Prasanna, Saqlain and Harbhajan did. Clearly, though, it takes plenty of skill and those with the skill to do it should not be prevented from doing so by the lack of skill of those who can't.

In any case, it's impossible to ban a certain delivery because there is, after all, no definition of what constitutes a delivery. Each bowler is slightly different.

Prasanna and Saqlain are just assumptions though, aren't they?

Harbhajan got banned from bowling it at one stage too, didn't he?

 

[Richard]

Well AFAIK Prasanna and Saqlain were never tested, but that's because no-one ever suspected anything. And I might be mistaken, but I don't think it works the other way around - that is, I don't think it's possible for straightening to appear as non-straightening. As for Harbhajan he was never, I don't think, formally banned from bowling it though I'm pretty sure it was at one point found to be outside the tolerance limits. Doesn't seem that way now, though, as even Australian players aren't complaining about him these days.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I don't think it's possible for straightening to appear as non-straightening.

McGrath and Pollock closer to throwing than Murali, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Richard]

McGrath and Pollock closer to throwing than Murali, etc. etc. etc.

McGrath and Pollock closer to throwing than Murali, etc. etc. etc.

Really? I never heard that. Only ever that both had precious little straightening while it appeared one had lots and the other had none.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Yeah, I still don't think banning a delivery is the way to go. Just test them when it looks dodgy, it's not inconceivable that people can bowl it at some stage without pushing the limits. Maybe it would be an idea to get it tested before you bowl it in a match...

That's really my point, everyone who bowls it looks sus to a lesser or greater extent IMHO.

If the powers that be have banned one bowler from using it but allowed him to continue his career it's the same principal to extend it to everyone.

With the system we have unfortunately just because a bowler is cleared once in the lab it doesn't follwo that he's not chucking in match conditions. As the doosra pushes the boundaries so far anyway I'd just be happier for it to be banned until technology catches up and we have in-match flexion readings available.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Remember figures being quoted where Murali's doosra was at 11 degrees, McGrath and others at 12. What's to say that someone's action who was always considered as fine, has 15 degrees flexion? For example, what about someone like Gillespie who had a bit flick of the wrist, maybe it was generated by extra elbow bendage.

Well AFAIK Prasanna and Saqlain were never tested, but that's because no-one ever suspected anything.

To be honest, I reckon that anyone off-spinner who gets the ball to turn both ways will get called nowadays.
For example, Saqlain certainly had a bend in his arm when bowling it. Didn't seem to be straightening in his arm, but there was definitely a bend. I'd be interested in seeing whether under testing that angle was only 15 degrees, and what his flexion was for his normal off-spinner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85UYevAWoxo&feature=related

 

[BoyBrumby]

Remember figures being quoted where Murali's doosra was at 11 degrees, McGrath and others at 12.

14 degrees for Murali's doosra according to The Hindu.

Given the error margin and the fact he knew he was being tested I think it's fair to suggest he's over on occasions.

 

[vic_orthdox]

14 degrees for Murali's doosra according to The Hindu.

Given the error margin and the fact he knew he was being tested I think it's fair to suggest he's over on occasions.

Maybe it was his offie. Whatever.

 

[Richard]

14 degrees for Murali's doosra according to The Hindu.

Given the error margin and the fact he knew he was being tested I think it's fair to suggest he's over on occasions.

I think it's fair to suggest that every bowler, ever has been over on occasions and that it's completely and totally impossible to weed this out.

Unless, of course, you have some means of stopping the elbow flexing at all in delivery - which is possible but could, remotely conceivably, be dangerous.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I think it's fair to suggest that every bowler, ever has been over on occasions and that it's completely and totally impossible to weed this out.

Unless, of course, you have some means of stopping the elbow flexing at all in delivery - which is possible but could, remotely conceivably, be dangerous.

I wouldn't say it's fair to suggest that at all.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I wouldn't say it's fair to suggest that at all.

No, indeed. Unless they've been tested in laboratory conditions and been found to be one degree below the chucking threshold too.

 

[Uppercut]

I wouldn't say it's fair to suggest that at all.

I certainly agree with him. As Brumby says, with Murali's doosra measured at 14 degrees when he knew he was being test, it's reasonable to think he's gone over that at some stage in match conditions. With McGrath measured at 11 degrees while being tested, it's pretty unlikely that he's never reached 15 degrees either at some stage in a match condition. And if someone with McGrath's action has done it, there won't be many players who haven't.

Apart from Ramnaresh Sarwan.

 

[Richard]

If Sarwan never has either I'll eat my computer.