Should Brett Lee be selected for the Ashes?

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Wales? :P

Yeah just remembered it was at Cardiff. Whatev.

 

[four_or_six]

Yeah just remembered it was at Cardiff. Whatev.

Bloody Cardiff. Will probably be a rain-affected draw anyway.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Bloody Cardiff. Will probably be a rain-affected draw anyway.

Probably an innings defeat for England imo.

 

[four_or_six]

Probably an innings defeat for England imo.

No way.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

No way.

 

[four_or_six]

Lol.

 

[Rant0r]

i don't think mcdonald will play ahead of a fit clark or lee.

he would do well over there though

 

[Josh]

Should go; don't think he'd walk back into the team tho. However Hilfenhaus didn't show much this tour apart from maybe the first test, so he could be relegated to 12th man. Also got that guy, what's his name - Clark??

 

[DaRick]

No - at least not in the first XI. Maybe as a 'wildcard' or as a backup, in place of Bollinger (whose FC record in England is poor).

Why?

- He averages 45+ in England
- His arrogance about the whole thing: using the IPL to prepare
- Will he have enough time to get into form over the warm-up matches? I doubt it.
- The Test team has done far better without him
- He wasn't in stellar form upon leaving the Test team, for various reasons

Picking him would be dangerously akin to using 'Carl Hooper logic' - i.e - form is temporary, class is permanent. You pick the players who are proven to be fit and firing, not based on performances made over a year ago, with nothing to show for it since.

 

[DaRick]

Well, he's talking up his chances again.

Hey Brett, the new-ball isn't a god-given right.

 

[aussie]

Well, he's talking up his chances again.

Hey Brett, the new-ball isn't a god-given right.

Well if form is the main judgement & pass performances are disregarded to an extent. Australia only have Johnson & Siddle that are clear wicket-taking options.

Since Lee & Clark have to overcome injury woes. Given how Lee has bowled in the last 2 T20s, his pace is back. So once he gets more over under his belt in the IPL & T20 WC, he should start the first test.

Stuart Clark's position is under threat.

 

[DaRick]

Well if form is the main judgement & pass performances are disregarded to an extent. Australia only have Johnson & Siddle that are clear wicket-taking options.

Since Lee & Clark have to overcome injury woes. Given how Lee has bowled in the last 2 T20s, his pace is back. So once he gets more over under his belt in the IPL & T20 WC, he should start the first test.

Stuart Clark's position is under threat.

Nope. Sorry, I don't agree with that.

IPL and T20's are not appropriate preperation for an Ashes series. If Brett is so arrogant and stupid as to believe that they are, then frankly he doesn't deserve a spot.

Plus, he averages over 45 in England.

I would pick Stuart Clark over Lee in an instant when touring England.

 

[age_master]

Form in T20 will get him into the squad. I assume that there will be a warmup game or 2 on the tour for him to show that he can bowl longer spells.

Assuming that 1 spinner plays, i think that Clark and Siddle are fighting for the one spot with Bollinger/Hilfy and Lee the other.

 

[pasag]

Form in T20 will get him into the squad. I assume that there will be a warmup game or 2 on the tour for him to show that he can bowl longer spells.

Assuming that 1 spinner plays, i think that Clark and Siddle are fighting for the one spot with Bollinger/Hilfy and Lee the other.

Mate, Siddle is first name down on the bowling list after Johnson for the Ashes. Saying he's fighting for a spot with Clark is akin to saying Hughes is fighting for a spot with Jaques, he's not.

 

[NUFAN]

Yeah agree with Pasag.

Re: Lee he'll make the squad for sure barring injury.

I actually think he's up against Andrew McDonald as the fourth seamer, handy batter position.

The funny thing is I think Lee would probably show more fight and bat better then McDonald but I reckon McDonald could bowl well in these English conditions and restrict the English batters, while with Lee it's always hard to be confident that he wont get smacked around, this in spite of McDonald being more known for his batting and Lee for his bowling.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I'd take him and I say that in a "which squad I think will give Australia the best chance of retaining the urn" way, not as a Pom.

Yes, his average doesn't look too impressive when viewed in isolation, but it seems to have now been spun into the idea that he didn't bowl well in 2005 at all, when the fact is that he prodcued some blistering spells. He knocked over Geraint in the first innings of the first test when KP and him were slowly hauling us back into the game, he produced two jaffas to dismiss Fred & KP in the 4th innings at Trent Bridge and very nearly break English hearts when we were cruising(ish) at 100-odd for 4 and it was his delivery that induced the edge that Warne shelled off KP on the final day at The Oval.

I think one has to consider the role he was being asked to perform in that series too. Oz had the redoutable McGrath to keep things tight, Lee was the strike weapon to nick a few wickets and not worry so much about the runs. The truth of this became more evident with the way his MO changed after the great man chuntered off to the IPL.

He's had fitness and personal issues in the last year or so and, at his age, they might well have hastened a permanent decline, but is Bollinger or Hilfenhaus really likely to be more of a threat this summer? Not IMHO.

 

[Richard]

I'd take him and I say that in a "which squad I think will give Australia the best chance of retaining the urn" way, not as a Pom.

Yes, his average doesn't look too impressive when viewed in isolation, but it seems to have now been spun into the idea that he didn't bowl well in 2005 at all, when the fact is that he prodcued some blistering spells.

Yes, he did - and a lot of nothing ones as well.

Lee bowled OK-ish in the Lord's Test on one of the best pitches he's ever had to bowl on in his career; bowled well on the opening morning at Old Trafford; and decently in his second spell in the fourth-innings at Trent Bridge. That, however, was it. The rest of the time he was his usual poor self.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Yes, he did - and a lot of nothing ones as well.

Lee bowled OK-ish in the Lord's Test on one of the best pitches he's ever had to bowl on in his career; bowled well on the opening morning at Old Trafford; and decently in his second spell in the fourth-innings at Trent Bridge. That, however, was it. The rest of the time he was his usual poor self.

In your opinion.

Not really germane to the topic at hand in any case tho; would you select him, yes or no? If the latter who would you take instead and why?

 

[Richard]

In your opinion.

No more than the previous post (which you put accross as "in fact") was yours, TBH.

Not really germane to the topic at hand in any case tho; would you select him, yes or no? If the latter who would you take instead and why?

Well no it's not, but not all replies are 100% related to the title of the thread. Would I pick him in the squad? Of course I would. Would I, right now, have him down as one of the four bowlers to start the First Test? Not a chance. With the exception of Johnson, the Australian bowlers all start the tour on an even footing (maybe with Siddle slightly ahead of everyone else) and it's simply a case of whose performances are best in what few tour-games there are. If Lee is up with, then he plays; if there are three who do better, he doesn't.

I do think it's likely Lee will play the opening Test because he should be good enough to force his way in, but there's no way he has any credit in the bank right now. His bowling in 2008/09, with the exception of a single game, was exceedingly poor.

 

[four_or_six]

I don't see how anyone can argue that Lee shouldn't go and at the same time say that Siddle is a cert. Lee has a huge amount of experience, has been a very successful bowler, and will have at least some bowling in the IPL to allow the selectors to guage his fitness after his injury. Siddle is an excellent young bowler and has bowled well this last year in tests, but he will have had no bowling at all to prove his fitness after his injury, and he's more injury prone than Lee in the first place.

I think take both of them, but I don't see such a huge difference between the pair. The warm-up matches are going to be important to see who actually plays the first test.