Atul Sharma

[rivera213]

so are you implying that 'anyone' can get in to a IPL squad?

With the current rules, the IPL squads are littered with mediocre Indian players who are there to make up the numbers.

also it has been pointed out that this is NOT abt the usual ways so there is no pt in your saying 'even if Hadlee [type in Marshall, Donald, or whoever] had blah blah'

You're missing the point. If the methods worked for the players of yesteryear, why bother taking a different approach?

There's a difference between a Dale Steyn who was already a quality bowler before going to Ian Pont and Atul Sharma.

I've no problems with someone like Steyn going to try to add some more pace (though I'd suggest it hasn't worked since recently his average has been around 140kph which is more or less what he was before, possibly SLOWER).

But to take a guy off the street and try to turn him into a fast bowler will be fruitless. It just doesn't happen.

most ppl know the importance of the abc of bowling, but they want to know if doing xyz can be effective as well .... ofc this does not undermine the usual way but there is no harm in seeing the other way. and you already said that you cannot be 100% sure if Atul will fail so ....

But is he doing the ABC?

The ABC would be:

1) Work on line
2) Work on length
3) Work on grip/variation
4) Work on swing (doesn't apply to all, but you know what I mean)
5) Most Importantly- Take what you've learnt in the nets (1-4) into a game.

How many batsmen and bowlers over the years have said "well I'm middling the ball with every shot in the nets but I haven't converted that into a game...". That was Michael Vaughans motto for the last year before his resignation.

I've no problem with the XYZ as long as the ABC is 80% of the work.

They did not do that training, but then they were extremely talented. They did not learn how to bowl fast. The mere fact that it has been seen as impossible to learn pace shows how difficult it is, or at least how you must break current trends to do so.

Exactly, they could bowl. sharma hasn't PROVED he can past a few straight balls.

And guys like Holding did light gym work (not weight training, just easy to moderate weight repetitive lifting).

The reason they bowled fast was because their actions had the fundamentals. Michael Holding is 1 of the sleightest men you'll see in real life, but he bowled between 90 & 95mph. He didn't do bench presses and all that crap.

He did however work on the important things such as line & length.

I doubt Sharma will be much faster than Holding while staying as accurate (if at all).

Why is strength not important to bowling? What reasoning can you use to support that assessment. The mere fact that bowlers are not body builders is because a degree of flexibility is crucial to the bowling action, therefore the skinnier people tend to have a good action or rather the physical ability to achieve it. You wouldn't call Lee or Akhtar weak though, would you?

You actually agree with me if you re-read my post you quoted and then your post.

 

[oitoitoi]

They did not do that training, but then they were extremely talented. They did not learn how to bowl fast. The mere fact that it has been seen as impossible to learn pace shows how difficult it is, or at least how you must break current trends to do so.

Why is strength not important to bowling? What reasoning can you use to support that assessment. The mere fact that bowlers are not body builders is because a degree of flexibility is crucial to the bowling action, therefore the skinnier people tend to have a good action or rather the physical ability to achieve it. You wouldn't call Lee or Akhtar weak though, would you?

Malinga's no fairy either. Quick bowlers have to be strong, but that doesn't mean body builder figure, you need a strong back, core and shoulders combined with an action that lets you take power from your legs (explosively powerful legs help a lot too) into propelling the ball, Michael Holding once said fast bowlers are born to run, he wasn't far off. Pretty much all quicks have these attributes even if they don't look it because of their bean pole physique. Through gym work it's not that hard to create a guy who can bowl 80mph, but to push past this to 90+ you need a good action and good rhythm (which takes lots and lots of practice, ideally match bowling), having the gift of a higher proportion of fast touch muscle helps as well, though this too can be improved through plyometric exercise.


Similarly the best batsmen often have very large forearm muscles (Tendulkar, Lara and Kallis good examples, forearms like trees), however what's perhaps more important is your core strength (abdominal muscles, muscles surrounding spine etc.) as this gives you your balance.

 

[ret]

With the current rules, the IPL squads are littered with mediocre Indian players who are there to make up the numbers.

but that does not mean that they will add 'anyone' to make up the number.

You're missing the point. If the methods worked for the players of yesteryear, why bother taking a different approach?

How many bowlers have been bowling at 95mph?

There's a difference between a Dale Steyn who was already a quality bowler before going to Ian Pont and Atul Sharma.

I've no problems with someone like Steyn going to try to add some more pace (though I'd suggest it hasn't worked since recently his average has been around 140kph which is more or less what he was before, possibly SLOWER).

But to take a guy off the street and try to turn him into a fast bowler will be fruitless. It just doesn't happen.

If you are sure that the exercise will be fruitless then why waste so much time on this thread!

But is he doing the ABC?

The ABC would be:

1) Work on line
2) Work on length
3) Work on grip/variation
4) Work on swing (doesn't apply to all, but you know what I mean)
5) Most Importantly- Take what you've learnt in the nets (1-4) into a game.

How many batsmen and bowlers over the years have said "well I'm middling the ball with every shot in the nets but I haven't converted that into a game...". That was Michael Vaughans motto for the last year before his resignation.

I've no problem with the XYZ as long as the ABC is 80% of the work.

Well, when he plays you will know all that! .... and there are so many players who when they are not playing well go back to the nets so discounting nets is not a good idea as you can learn a lot in nets

I am not someone who would make a judgment call without giving an opportunity to someone who has spent 7 years of his life trying to do what he believes in. I don't know how good or successful Atul will be but if he has worked hard with such devotion, if ppl like Pont believe in their potential and if teams like RR think that he is good enough to be a part of their squad then at least I can give him my good wishes, encouragement and hope that he gets an opportunity to show what he is capable of! If he fails then whats the big deal so many have come and gone but if he is successful then we will learn abt alternative methods to getting express bowlers!

 

[Polo23]

Agree with rivera213 here. There is no proof of him being anywhere near decent and no proof of him bowling 100mph.

As rivera213 already said, it's like me telling everyone I bowl 110mph. Would anyone believe me based on my word? No. So why is everyone believing this Atul Sharma hype without a single shred of evidence.

I'm not saying the guy can't do all the things this Pont bloke has said he can do, but until there is some sort of half credible evidence i'll continue to be skeptical.

 

[Flem274*]

Agree with rivera213 here. There is no proof of him being anywhere near decent and no proof of him bowling 100mph.

As rivera213 already said, it's like me telling everyone I bowl 110mph. Would anyone believe me based on my word? No. So why is everyone believing this Atul Sharma hype without a single shred of evidence.

I'm not saying the guy can't do all the things this Pont bloke has said he can do, but until there is some sort of half credible evidence i'll continue to be skeptical.

Bingo

 

[Simple Ton]

Welcome to the forums, hope you stick around.

thanks manee. Some of these posts are very hostile towards Sharma and hs coach when all that has happened is he's been discovered as something different and new. It's a big hope for us all in India because he looks exciting and has come from nowhere. Our system is different here so i think some people dont understand.
It's possible to be an inspiration just by being chosen in the IPL and he looks a monster!
Sharma says in an interview that he doesn't just want to bowl 100mph one time but several times so it looks like he has focused on pace exclusively. No one here minds that and we are proud to have an Indian who could be the fastest of all.
I think there are many ways to make a cake so sharma has done it differently. Good for him and the Pont coach. No other bowler gets criticised for how they prepare as much as sharma and i think this is worng
A friend of mine has just got the magazine article emailed to him and in it the editor of spin Duncan Steer says this story could change the way fast bowling is coached forever.

 

[Manee]

Exactly, they could bowl. sharma hasn't PROVED he can past a few straight balls.

And guys like Holding did light gym work (not weight training, just easy to moderate weight repetitive lifting).

The reason they bowled fast was because their actions had the fundamentals. Michael Holding is 1 of the sleightest men you'll see in real life, but he bowled between 90 & 95mph. He didn't do bench presses and all that crap.

Holding had natural pace though. Not much work was required for him to bowl quickly. Atul bowled originally at 75mph and so took the approach to be extremely strong and have a very good action in order to manufacture pace, I don't see the problem in that.

You actually agree with me if you re-read my post you quoted and then your post.

Not really. My point is that strength is invaluable to fast bowling and the only reason that such a truth is not valued is because people are weary of becoming too big to bowl quickly. However, if somebody trains the right kinds of strength (as to maximise relevant strength and minimise size as much as possible) alongside flexibility, then they can reap the benefits of being extremely strong for fast bowling.

 

[Manee]

thanks manee. Some of these posts are very hostile towards Sharma and hs coach when all that has happened is he's been discovered as something different and new. It's a big hope for us all in India because he looks exciting and has come from nowhere. Our system is different here so i think some people dont understand.
It's possible to be an inspiration just by being chosen in the IPL and he looks a monster!
Sharma says in an interview that he doesn't just want to bowl 100mph one time but several times so it looks like he has focused on pace exclusively. No one here minds that and we are proud to have an Indian who could be the fastest of all.
I think there are many ways to make a cake so sharma has done it differently. Good for him and the Pont coach. No other bowler gets criticised for how they prepare as much as sharma and i think this is worng
A friend of mine has just got the magazine article emailed to him and in it the editor of spin Duncan Steer says this story could change the way fast bowling is coached forever.

Indeed - agree with that.

 

[Simple Ton]

Holding had natural pace though. Not much work was required for him to bowl quickly. Atul bowled originally at 75mph and so took the approach to be extremely strong and have a very good action in order to manufacture pace, I don't see the problem in that.

Not really. My point is that strength is invaluable to fast bowling and the only reason that such a truth is not valued is because people are weary of becoming too big to bowl quickly. However, if somebody trains the right kinds of strength (as to maximise relevant strength and minimise size as much as possible) alongside flexibility, then they can reap the benefits of being extremely strong for fast bowling.

Agreed.
Sharma said he came to Pont but he wasn't impressed with what he saw at the beginning. They did work in Chennai and built a plan to get him where he is now and I think thats incredible. I imagine no one would look twice at a boy bowling 75 mph so they had to do something and Pont must have seen the potential in Sharma to develop him this way.
That's what my friend said the spin article is really about, another way of doing it.

 

[Manee]

Agreed.
Sharma said he came to Pont but he wasn't impressed with what he saw at the beginning. They did work in Chennai and built a plan to get him where he is now and I think thats incredible. I imagine no one would look twice at a boy bowling 75 mph so they had to do something and Pont must have seen the potential in Sharma to develop him this way.
That's what my friend said the spin article is really about, another way of doing it.

Yes, that is the crux of the Spin article - truly fascinating stuff.

 

[Uppercut]

Agree with rivera213 here. There is no proof of him being anywhere near decent and no proof of him bowling 100mph.

As rivera213 already said, it's like me telling everyone I bowl 110mph. Would anyone believe me based on my word? No. So why is everyone believing this Atul Sharma hype without a single shred of evidence.

I'm not saying the guy can't do all the things this Pont bloke has said he can do, but until there is some sort of half credible evidence i'll continue to be skeptical.

Can you think of any posters here who believe that he can bowl 100mph, never mind "everyone"?

 

[Jono]

^ Exactly.

Bloody hell its posts like that which are annoying.

 

[Polo23]

Can you think of any posters here who believe that he can bowl 100mph, never mind "everyone"?

From what i've been reading, it seems quite a few are happy to believe whatever crap spews out of "Ponty's" mouth.

Can you think of any posters here who believe this guy isn't a different bowler to other more conventional bowlers? We've all seen he has a strange action. Again though, that means absolutely jack.

Can he bowl a decent line? Can he bowl on a length? Can he bowl quick? Can he sustain his speed for any amount of time? Will he cope with the pressure of professional sport? Can he remain injury free? Will his specific training routines help him be better than any of the "conventional" bowlers around?

All questions that no one has a shred of evidence to provide an answer for.

Why's it annoying Jono? Because some people refuse to be gullible fools?

 

[Uppercut]

I asked you to name me a single poster, and you haven't.

 

[Polo23]

I asked you to name me a single poster, and you haven't.

You never asked me to name anyone.

And anyway, posters saying they believe he bowls 100mph or not is irrelevant to my argument.

 

[Simple Ton]

From what i've been reading, it seems quite a few are happy to believe whatever crap spews out of "Ponty's" mouth.

Can you think of any posters here who believe this guy isn't a different bowler to other more conventional bowlers? We've all seen he has a strange action. Again though, that means absolutely jack.

Can he bowl a decent line? Can he bowl on a length? Can he bowl quick? Can he sustain his speed for any amount of time? Will he cope with the pressure of professional sport? Can he remain injury free? Will his specific training routines help him be better than any of the "conventional" bowlers around?

All questions that no one has a shred of evidence to provide an answer for.

Why's it annoying Jono? Because some people refuse to be gullible fools?

firstly, how sure are u that ponty is actual Ian Pont?
I have met him and attended a pace camp he ran and he was excellent so I would believe most things he is alleged to have said based on my experience.
One thing he said was that other people would not 'get' what he did and that was fine but he took Steyn to numebr one in the world from nowhere and changed darren gough's action so he could get 3 more years playing.
I beleive in Pont and an sure he knows what he's doing. As for Sharma being able to bowl then Chappell and Watson would not have said so, would they? would they risk it too? There are too many smart coaches and players saying this guy is good.
whatever we all think here we are not coaches or players to this level so we would have to trust oters who know more than us.

 

[ret]

As rivera213 already said, it's like me telling everyone I bowl 110mph. Would anyone believe me based on my word?

Why don't you go on and try telling ppl that you can bowl at 100 mph? Let see if you can get as far as Atul has with that!

If you can't then obviously it's not the same!

 

[Polo23]

firstly, how sure are u that ponty is actual Ian Pont?
I have met him and attended a pace camp he ran and he was excellent so I would believe most things he is alleged to have said based on my experience.
One thing he said was that other people would not 'get' what he did and that was fine but he took Steyn to numebr one in the world from nowhere and changed darren gough's action so he could get 3 more years playing.
I beleive in Pont and an sure he knows what he's doing. As for Sharma being able to bowl then Chappell and Watson would not have said so, would they? would they risk it too? There are too many smart coaches and players saying this guy is good.
whatever we all think here we are not coaches or players to this level so we would have to trust oters who know more than us.

Christ, it's like going around in circles.

You pretty much just provided more substance to my argument. Exactly, who is to say "Ponty" is Ian Pont? If I came on under the username "Paddles" and said I was Richard Hadlee, would you believe me? I think not. Pont obviously has said this guy is something special elsewhere, but people seem to believe it is the man himself on here incredibly easily.

Good for you for believing in Pont, how exactly does that provide us with any evidence that Sharma is special? Again, Chappell and Watson saying he can bowl is just hearsay. I could come in here and say "Sachin Tendulkar and Martin Crowe said I was going to be the greatest batsman of all time!" and it would be just as reliable as "Ponty" saying it, wouldnt it?

So far only Ian Pont has said this guy is something special, no evidence to suggest anyone else has said anything of the sort.

Why the hell should we trust the word of anyone when there is no credible evidence? As I said before, feel free to be as gullible as you like. But until I see some EVIDENCE (do you understand what that is?!) to suggest Sharma has got something about him i'll continue to be skeptical.

 

[Polo23]

Why don't you go on and try telling ppl that you can bowl at 100 mph? Let see if you can get as far as Atul has with that!

If you can't then obviously it's not the same!

Theres the same amount of evidence showing I can bowl 100mph as there is showing Sharma doing it.

I've never denied Sharma has done well getting an IPL contract, especially since he hasn't played cricket in 7 years..it's frankly unbelievable. It doesn't however equate to him being a good bowler.

 

[Flem274*]

I think Polo has dug a hole here, he's right in a sense, but posters have been very skeptical on here. Apart from that, I think he's in the money.