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CW Ranks the Batsmen
- Thread starter adharcric
- Start date
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Once more.1) KS Ranjitsinhji
2) H Sutcliffe
Don't want to sound like the broken record, but think it's criminal Ranji isn't getting more support. Herb the only man other than Sir Donald to end with over 4000 test runs at over 60, which must count for something. Can only think his lack of a second initial has irked the southern snobs.
My whinge still stands as well...
bagapath
International Captain
true. dont know ponting and chanders' Fc figures, though. cant really make a stronger case for chander in comparison with ponting anyway.Don't you think that FC matches are more important than Twenty20 while comparing players from different eras (like what we have been doing here in this thread), especially given that FC cricket has always been there while T20 is only a new-born baby...
Coming back to this post of yours, I never imagined that you could reply to a post which not only considers Chanderpaul the best batsman among those who are playing today (not on form alone evidently), but also opines that Ponting is the only one close to him...
Slifer
International Captain
i agree exactly y isnt Sutcliffe considered the 2nd best after Bradman. I must admit ive been guilty myself of following the crowd but if Sutcliffe and Hobbs played essentially in the same era against the same teams y is Hobbs at # 2 and the man with the highest average after Bradman (plus a good/great record against all teams so low)??
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I've gone for Sutcliffe from the off
Statistics can, of course, be misleading but he was undoubtedly a man for a fight against the best – his test average against Australia was 66 and he took four centuries off their bowling in 1924/25 in the context of a series where England were beaten soundly 4-1 – in County cricket he averaged less than 40 against only two counties – Northants, who were comfortably the worst county, never rising above 11th over the period of Sutcliffe’s career and being last or next to last more than half the time – the other was Derbyshire, who in the late 30’s were only the second county outside the so-called big six to lift the title, but who were distinctly average for the rest of the time – against the mighty Lancashire on the other hand, he was rather better
Statistics can, of course, be misleading but he was undoubtedly a man for a fight against the best – his test average against Australia was 66 and he took four centuries off their bowling in 1924/25 in the context of a series where England were beaten soundly 4-1 – in County cricket he averaged less than 40 against only two counties – Northants, who were comfortably the worst county, never rising above 11th over the period of Sutcliffe’s career and being last or next to last more than half the time – the other was Derbyshire, who in the late 30’s were only the second county outside the so-called big six to lift the title, but who were distinctly average for the rest of the time – against the mighty Lancashire on the other hand, he was rather better
Maximus0723
State Regular
and, who would you take out from our top 9 to replace those u mentioned?
bagapath
International Captain
it is to do with his batting style. sutcliffe could be very defensive and almost be strokeless for hours in protecting his wicket. his strike rate of 37 (projected figure since ball-by-ball info is not always available) is among the lowest for a leading batsman putting him on par with boycott and john wright. essentially he and bradman played the same number of deliveries on average, about 160 per innings. while bradman ended his career with an average of 99, sutcliffe finished his with 60. that is a huge 40 run difference for the same amount of time spent at the wicket. while one got your juices flowing, the other one encouraged you to take a nap. even in the old days, extreme slow play was not always helpful to the team. you wont find many old cricket writers praising sutcliffe's style as they would do for a hobbs or a trumper or a mccartney despite herbert being a great bad wicket player. it is another example of my pet theory that post-retirement, a player is more remembered by his style within his peer group, and all statistical differences are totally ignored between players who fall in the same broad bracket.
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Yeah same can be said of many players, look at Ken Barrington, an amazing test average but how many votes has he got so far if any? Think it is pretty fair for those peers to say that though, after all cricket is for watching and not for studying in a totally dispassionate way.
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
Maybe, just maybe, because stats do not always tell everything. If stats and averages did tell it all there would be no reason whatsoever, to ever ask a player, "Who was the greatest of your time?" A computer could answer that better and faster, and be more reliable and consistent.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
I don't know!
The leading candidate to be left out is Chappell. No way is he better than Aftab Habib.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Fair point, well made.
A lot depends on how highly you rate the scoring of runs per se, and even occupation of the crease, as against attractiveness. For an opening batsman, occupation of the crease is very important - part of your job is to blunt the attack.
And Herbert's mastery of bad pitches may seem less significant in these days of lifeless roads, but it was massively important when he was playing. Which brings us back to attractiveness: I'd pay a lot of money to have the chance to watch Sutcliffe scoring at 1.5 runs per over on a minefield.
Days of Grace
International Captain
Ha ha, correct.
Makes me laugh when people on here, when you post a top 10, always say, "a travesty when these players are left out: and names about 10 players of their own."
Anyone realise that 20 doesn't go into 10?
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
He did much more than just exist. In three innings, yes just three, he scored a staggering 26 runs against the Kiwis, Bradman in his entire twenty year long Test career scored just Zilch
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