Ireland For Test Status?

[stumpski]

Wilson still has a contract with Surrey. The only Methody oldboy to play FC cricket as far as i'm aware. If he seems a bit too dire to be playing county cricket it's because he's a wicket keeping all-rounder who we play as a specialist batsman.

Wilson is basically the wicket-keeper for Surrey 2nd XI. He never gets a look in for the 4 day side because Batty hasn't missed a Championship game since Stewart last played in 2003. A latter-day Jimmy Binks, indeed. He obviously stays very fit and appears to be a very popular member of the squad but he is 35 and they'll need to look to the future at some point. I haven't seen Wilson, but if he's handy with the bat perhaps he should get a few more chances in the one-day side this season. Batty can score quickly, but is more of a grafter tbh.

 

[andruid]

The same is true of Yorkshiremen, and Surreyans, and Kentish... etc. etc.
Until 1997, no-one gave the remotest of thoughts to there being an Ireland team that played against other international teams in serious international contests. Ireland's team was akin to a Minor County.

In my view the fact that the Republic Of Ireland is politically independent of the UK should not impact on whether they go from Minor County equivalent to international side or Minor County equivalent to First-Class county equivalent.

ummm no

Ireland were playing international cricket way back in 1992. Dig up old ICC trophy matches and see for yourself.

On the sentence I bolded, tha is just plain un true

 

[Oli Norwell]

If Ireland don't get test status then their best players will opt for county careers instead. That and then possibly attempt to qualify for England.

Thus for me they need to be told that in 5 years they will get test status given that they perform to an acceptable level.

Of course the likes of India and Australia aren't going to want to spend two months touring Ireland on top of an already busy schedule. Therefore as much as us traditionalists like to scorn at the idea a two level test match system is crucial, or of course just call all games between the top 15 or so countries test matches, and risk endless mismatches and records being broken all over the place.

Personally I'd like to see a test match league system, ran over four years. With the league table being restarted after each four year period. Countries would be split into two groups of 7. The bottom team of group one and the top team from group two would switch places every four years. All games in both leagues would have test status. Iconic series like Eng v Australia would be guaranteed as in the current schedule, however they would only affect the league table if the teams were in the same league.

 

[brockley]

ECB should annex scotland ireland like they did wales,stop them playing internationally and recruit those players for england.

 

[Indipper]

They already tried that.

 

[Richard]

But the obvious counter-argument is that they want to play for England so that they can play at the highest level. It's like saying that, seeing as Clarrie Grimmett came and played for Australia, then this was setting a precedent that all NZers should have followed if they wanted to play Test cricket.

As I say - NZ have never, under any circumstance, played cricket alongside Australia. NZ and Aus have always been totally separate. England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland (or rather NI and ROI) simply haven't been. For yonks no-one minded about this because there were no ICC executives who were desperate to make the game look more global than it actually was. Now, however, there are.

I've said it before - if East Stirlingshire and some Irish county had had a team in the County Championship a la Glamorgan, there would never have been any doubt that as a cricket team The British Isles was one.

 

[Richard]

ummm no

Ireland were playing international cricket way back in 1992. Dig up old ICC trophy matches and see for yourself.

On the sentence I bolded, tha is just plain un true

It isn't, though. Ask any Yorkshireman down the years - if they could play international cricket for Yorkshire, they would. They wouldn't give a damn about playing for England.

And at the end of the day, Yorkshire isn't a country and nor is Ireland. Republic Of Ireland is.

 

[Richard]

ECB should annex scotland ireland like they did wales,stop them playing internationally and recruit those players for england.

The ECB never annexed Wales. Glamorgan simply had a team in the County Championship for 60 years by the time the ECB was formed, while there was no Scottish or Irish equivalent. Had there been, the board formed in 1997 would have been some variant of the British Isles Cricket Board.

 

[GIMH]

It isn't, though. Ask any Yorkshireman down the years - if they could play international cricket for Yorkshire, they would. They wouldn't give a damn about playing for England.

And at the end of the day, Yorkshire isn't a country and nor is Ireland. Republic Of Ireland is.

Contentious thing to say that, though Richard. Yorkshire has never been a country, where Ireland is divided only due to controversial politics

 

[Richard]

Ireland is not a country; Yorkshire is not a country.

If Ireland were ever to become a country - not, you might say, an immediate prospect - then the "well Ireland is separate from the UK so should have a separate cricket team" stuff might just hold a bit of water. Until such a time, it just doesn't.

I don't have a clue of majority NI attitudes - whether there's more in favour of being part of the UK or being part of ROI. But I do know how things are.

 

[GIMH]

Ireland and Yorkshire aren't really comparable though. There are 32 counties in Ireland, 26 in the Republic. Yorkshire is one of about - I dunno - 80? - counties in England.

 

[Richard]

Whether they're a county or an agglomeration of sub-countries, the fact is they're not counties, and players from both might well have played for them at the highest level if they had not only had the choice of England only.

 

[fredfertang]

Ireland and Yorkshire aren't really comparable though

This must be right - there are also provinces in Ireland - Ulster, Munster, Connacht and Leinster - administratively it's totally different from the rest of the UK and I'm not convinced that Northern Ireland isn't by definition a separate country - it's certainly not the same as Scotland or Wales - are there any Constitutional Law experts out there?

 

[Magrat Garlick]

 

[BoyBrumby]

This must be right - there are also provinces in Ireland - Ulster, Munster, Connacht and Leinster - administratively it's totally different from the rest of the UK and I'm not convinced that Northern Ireland isn't by definition a separate country - it's certainly not the same as Scotland or Wales - are there any Constitutional Law experts out there?

'Fraid not. But I do know that, confusingly, three of the nine counties that make up Ulster are actually in the Republic.

 

[four_or_six]

Home rule for Yorkshire.

 

[GIMH]

This must be right - there are also provinces in Ireland - Ulster, Munster, Connacht and Leinster - administratively it's totally different from the rest of the UK and I'm not convinced that Northern Ireland isn't by definition a separate country - it's certainly not the same as Scotland or Wales - are there any Constitutional Law experts out there?

If you are born in Northern Ireland you can hold either a British or an Irish passport, or indeed both. I would imagine that one of Uppercut, James_W, DCC_Legend etc holds dual passports. And if you work in the north but live in the south you are eligible for British tax credits. Dunno if that helps.

 

[Uppercut]

If you are born in Northern Ireland you can hold either a British or an Irish passport, or indeed both. I would imagine that one of Uppercut, James_W, DCC_Legend etc holds dual passports. And if you work in the north but live in the south you are eligible for British tax credits. Dunno if that helps.

It's just a decent enough way to sidestep controversy. Some prefer to hold Irish passports simply because you're treated much better overseas when associated with Ireland than when associated with England. By default you receive a British passport, so you have to go out of your way to get an Irish one. I haven't bothered.

 

[James_W]

I have a British and Irish passports, tbh mainly because some clubs and stuff here wouldn't let you in with an Irish passport as a form of ID. But if someone asked me what nationality I considered myself, I'd definately say Irish rather than Northern Irish.

 

[Uppercut]

This must be right - there are also provinces in Ireland - Ulster, Munster, Connacht and Leinster - administratively it's totally different from the rest of the UK and I'm not convinced that Northern Ireland isn't by definition a separate country - it's certainly not the same as Scotland or Wales - are there any Constitutional Law experts out there?

It's an interesting little situation. As far as i'm aware the Republic's constitution still stakes claim to the whole island but admits that its rights to the north are on hold until Ireland reunites. This really doesn't go down well with Ulster Protestants. In reality the Dáil in Dublin has absolutely no say in how Northern Ireland is run. Politically, they're completely different countries. Different currency, for starters.

There are a few little perks that suggest otherwise though- for example, there's no border anywhere other than on a map. You can cross into the Republic and back again without even realising you've been in a different country. In a sporting sense the rugby and cricket teams incorporate all of Ireland and the GAA runs as though there's no division whatsoever (although that's mainly because it's almost exclusively Catholic).

As a state, the Northern Irish parliament at Stormont has no control over issues like the military and very little control over taxes or economics (which is probably just as well because the politicians here aren't really built for running a country). But they can make their own laws, and because of our horrid partisan politics any NI-specific laws tend to be based on religion. All licensed premises still have to closed at 1 (yes that includes "night" clubs), and there's a series of bizarre issues relating to Sundays (actually at one stage Craigavon chained up swings in their parks to stop children from playing on the Lord's day). We don't have Sunday League football because the deeply conservative IFA won't support it.

There's not really much more to say without getting into the politics of the country, something which it's never wise to do. I'm surprised at Dicko's strong opinions on the subject considering how uninformed they are, at least when he holds bizarre cricketing beliefs he can claim to have spent a lot of time on the subject. All i'll say is that trying to form a British Isles cricket team is probably one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.