Ireland For Test Status?

[TT Boy]

Would plump for in Tests...

Nafees, Hamilton, Shakib, Morgan, RTD, Snyman, Taibu, Mortaza, Blain, Rankin, Price

I would go with something like this...

Masakadza, Iqbal, Morgan, RTD, Williams, Shakib, Taibu, Snyman, Mortaza, Rainsford, Price.

 

[andruid]

I would go with something like this...

Masakadza, Iqbal, Morgan, RTD, Williams, Shakib, Taibu, Snyman, Mortaza, Rainsford, Price.

Same but Odoyo for Snyman,

 

[four_or_six]

I don't think Ireland should play tests against the 'big boys', or that we should combine Ireland with England any more than we should combine NZ and Australia. I think a tiered system, such as the one at the moment, works pretty well.

The T20 world cup has added another thing for Associate countries to play in other than the ODI world cup, and that's a good step in the right direction. If Ireland perform consistently in these competitions, and are smashing the other Associate countries, then they need to move up and play more cricket against the test sides, in a gradual fashion.

Poaching players is a problem, but it's hardly one-sided. Joyce and Morgan want(ed) to play for England, so it's their decision. I think it's more important to have a proper way of releasing players from county duty, and proper compensation for the counties doing so.

 

[Richard]

I don't think Ireland should play tests against the 'big boys', or that we should combine Ireland with England any more than we should combine NZ and Australia.

Why on Earth not? Australia and New Zealand can both put out international-standard teams and have a strong history and tradition of playing independently; England and Ireland don't (that is, England can, sometimes, put out an international-standard team, while Ireland cannot - principally because the best Irish players can and always have played in and for England, which for decades was viewed as entirely natural and now is being tried to be claimed as wrong).

 

[four_or_six]

Why on Earth not? Australia and New Zealand can both put out international-standard teams and have a strong history and tradition of playing independently; England and Ireland don't (that is, England can, sometimes, put out an international-standard team, while Ireland cannot - principally because the best Irish players can and always have played in and for England, which for decades was viewed as entirely natural and now is being tried to be claimed as wrong).

Because they're completely different countries, and the setup is country v country. I have no problem if we go to franchise v franchise test cricket. (I know the WI is different, but that's fine as it has a long history).

And I think England have an international-standard team more than 'sometimes'.

 

[vic_orthdox]

It was only, and still is only, ever viewed as "natural" because it's the closest place that the Irish can go to play a higher standard of cricket.

 

[four_or_six]

Why on Earth not? Australia and New Zealand can both put out international-standard teams and have a strong history and tradition of playing independently; England and Ireland don't (that is, England can, sometimes, put out an international-standard team, while Ireland cannot - principally because the best Irish players can and always have played in and for England, which for decades was viewed as entirely natural and now is being tried to be claimed as wrong).

Because they're completely different countries, and the setup is country v country. I have no problem if we go to franchise v franchise test cricket. (I know the WI is different, but that's fine as it has a long history).

And I think England have an international-standard team more than 'sometimes'.

 

[Redbacks]

Against currently, however if the ICC or the people running the game can set up some criteria/strategy for Ireland to progress towards qualifying for test status that would be good.

Juniors, funding, development plans etc. that would take the game forward in Ireland.

 

[brockley]

I am happy for ireland to be a feeding club for the ECB,nial o'brien must be the next keeper in the pecking order

 

[TT Boy]

Same but Odoyo for Snyman,

On recent form, Snyman pick himself. Turned himself into a valuable opening bowler for Namibia and as dangerous associate batsman goes, he is one of the very best. Odoyo has had a pretty torrid time recently with injury and loss of form. 12-18 months back he was the best associate cricketer going.

 

[Chemosit]

On recent form, Snyman pick himself. Turned himself into a valuable opening bowler for Namibia and as dangerous associate batsman goes, he is one of the very best. Odoyo has had a pretty torrid time recently with injury and loss of form. 12-18 months back he was the best associate cricketer going.

can't argue with that, especially after tonight. Hard to pick any Kenyan players on current form.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Why on Earth not? Australia and New Zealand can both put out international-standard teams and have a strong history and tradition of playing independently; England and Ireland don't (that is, England can, sometimes, put out an international-standard team, while Ireland cannot - principally because the best Irish players can and always have played in and for England, which for decades was viewed as entirely natural and now is being tried to be claimed as wrong).

This rather ignores the fact that no Irish players were worthy of selection "for decades". Until Joyce was called up, no Irishman had played for England since they became independent.

The fact is that cricket is growing in Ireland and this is apparent by the very fact we're now swiping their players. The growth must be at least partly due to them having a national team of their own.

 

[Richard]

It was only, and still is only, ever viewed as "natural" because it's the closest place that the Irish can go to play a higher standard of cricket.

The same is true of Yorkshiremen, and Surreyans, and Kentish... etc. etc.

Until 1997, no-one gave the remotest of thoughts to there being an Ireland team that played against other international teams in serious international contests. Ireland's team was akin to a Minor County.

In my view the fact that the Republic Of Ireland is politically independent of the UK should not impact on whether they go from Minor County equivalent to international side or Minor County equivalent to First-Class county equivalent.

 

[Richard]

Because they're completely different countries, and the setup is country v country. I have no problem if we go to franchise v franchise test cricket. (I know the WI is different, but that's fine as it has a long history).

And I think England have an international-standard team more than 'sometimes'.

Because they're completely different countries, and the setup is country v country. I have no problem if we go to franchise v franchise test cricket. (I know the WI is different, but that's fine as it has a long history).

And I think England have an international-standard team more than 'sometimes'.

So do I - it was a relatively light-hearted comment.

As for Test cricket being county v country, well... it just isn't. For starters, there's West Indies; then, actually, there's England - England is not a country, England is part of the country that is the United Kingdom. And Ireland does not exist as a country either - part of Ireland is also part of the UK; another part is independent of the UK.

The cricket team being, effectively, "the British Isles" has every bit as long a tradition as West Indies - it's just, unfortunately, West Indies' team was named well. The fact that the team which was actually the British Isles was named England is now causing all sorts of ****ups 100 years later.

 

[Richard]

This rather ignores the fact that no Irish players were worthy of selection "for decades". Until Joyce was called up, no Irishman had played for England since they became independent.

The fact is that cricket is growing in Ireland and this is apparent by the very fact we're now swiping their players. The growth must be at least partly due to them having a national team of their own.

Not really. Ireland only officially had their own international team starting in 1997; they were independent of the UK (ie, were no longer subservient of it) sometime in the 1960s UIMM.

And while no Irishman had played for England pre-Joyce for an eternity, any Irishman who ever got good at cricket always played for a county, and would have played for England if they were good enough. What is now viewed as "swiping" was for decades viewed as mere natural progression.

 

[GIMH]

Not really. Ireland only officially had their own international team starting in 1997; they were independent of the UK (ie, were no longer subservient of it) sometime in the 1960s UIMM.

And while no Irishman had played for England pre-Joyce for an eternity, any Irishman who ever got good at cricket always played for a county, and would have played for England if they were good enough. What is now viewed as "swiping" was for decades viewed as mere natural progression.

1920ish it became independent

The whole "England isn't a country" thing is a bit of a farce - it is one of the four countries of the UK. If you wanted to be really picky then you can say that England and Wales are one legal entity - but that's what we technically play cricket as anyway, sort of

 

[Richard]

The unclarity of the situation merely serves, IMO, to emphasise that international cricket is based only roughly on lines of political nations.

And that, thus, "Republic Of Ireland is a separate country so Ireland should be a separate international cricket team" really does hold absolutely no water as an argument.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Not really. Ireland only officially had their own international team starting in 1997; they were independent of the UK (ie, were no longer subservient of it) sometime in the 1960s UIMM.

And while no Irishman had played for England pre-Joyce for an eternity, any Irishman who ever got good at cricket always played for a county, and would have played for England if they were good enough. What is now viewed as "swiping" was for decades viewed as mere natural progression.

You are much mistaken. The Irish Free State was established in 1922 & declared a republic in 1949.

& you're just blowing off the fact there is a minor proliferation of Irish cricketers in the county scene as a fluke then? Since you're the expert maybe you'd like to name some of these other Irish county players from before they had their own national team then?

 

[BoyBrumby]

1920ish it became independent

The whole "England isn't a country" thing is a bit of a farce - it is one of the four countries of the UK. If you wanted to be really picky then you can say that England and Wales are one legal entity - but that's what we technically play cricket as anyway, sort of

Wales is a principality of the kingdom of England. Same dealy with Monaco and France.

 

[Richard]

& you're just blowing off the fact there is a minor proliferation of Irish cricketers in the county scene as a fluke then? Since you're the expert maybe you'd like to name some of these other Irish county players from before they had their own national team then?

A minor proliferation being Joyce, Rankin and Morgan? I actually don't know any names, but are you seriously telling me you think there weren't any who played for counties before Joyce in 2002?

If so, I suggest you go and argue the case with Matthew Engel, who had this to say in the 2007 Wisden:

Every Irishman or Scotsman who has ever gotten good at cricket has wanted to play for England. It is just a historical quirk that the England cricket team is not called Britain or the British Isles.

Somehow I can't shake the feeling you'd be rather more reluctant to label him ineducated than me.

Incidentally, the number of Irishmen in county cricket currently is roughly the same as the number of Australian \ South African cricketers who've played for Ireland of late (eg, Johnstone, Langford-Smith, Botha).