The New Zealand Test Team-The Way Forward

[Athlai]

NZ has the core of an excellent side with the following being world class or solid enough:

Taylor
Ryder
Vettori
McCullum
Bond
Martin

However, for a quantum leap to take place, guys like Guptil, Flynn and Patel need to step up whilst a couple of the injury-prone need to get on paddock regularly and perform

Obviously opener remains a problem whilst there are too many batting all-rounders (Oram, Franklin and arguably Vettori) and not enough genuine wicket-takers

O'Brien > Martin slightly too IMO. Franklin also is a far better bowler than Oram while contributing only slightly less with the bat.

 

[SJS]

SJS, I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but you are aware that Fleming is well and truly retired from all cricket and has been for 12 months, right?

There is simply no chance of him ever coming back, but you talk about him as if you think a comeback is right around the corner.

Styris is retired from test matches as well btw

Of course I know he is retired but there have been more than a dozen instances of retired players being brought back, often specifically to lead national sides. Many of them were much older than Fleming is today and had been out of cricket for longer periods..

I do not have a clue as to how feasible this is. Fleming may have very strong personal views on that matter. I am purely suggesting what Kiwis need as of today and Flemings skill sets are best suited for that.

 

[Athlai]

I've always seen Vettori as a player who while very tactically minded and intelligent is not a great leader of men. He is the perfect vice captain, strong enough to voice his opinion and to occasionally have a stroke of brilliance on the field yet in terms of leading from the front? He is hardly the most inspiring.

Which is why I believe that we got the order mixed up, McCullum captain, Vettori vice captain just seems to me that it would have better chemistry. McCullum is tenacious, and never gives up, while Vettori is far less daring.

Let McCullum lead our boys and Vettori set our fields and form our plans.

 

[social]

O'Brien > Martin slightly too IMO. Franklin also is a far better bowler than Oram while contributing only slightly less with the bat.

Sorry, forgot about O'Brien

An attack comprised of Bond, Martin, Obrien, Patel/another and Vettori is not bad at all but means Dan may have to take more responsibility with the bat at 6 (or 7 behind McCullum) - not unreasonable considering considering his form over the past couple of years

 

[Prince EWS]

Of course I know he is retired but there have been more than a dozen instances of retired players being brought back, often specifically to lead national sides. Many of them were much older than Fleming is today and had been out of cricket for longer periods..

I do not have a clue as to how feasible this is. Fleming may have very strong personal views on that matter. I am purely suggesting what Kiwis need as of today and Flemings skill sets are best suited for that.

I have little doubt Fleming would still be playing had they not taken the Test captaincy away from him when he retired from ODIs; that was a really stupid mistake.

I doubt he'd come back if asked now though.

 

[Flem274*]

Is this second team your team of failures/ ICLs/ injuries? Bit harsh to include McCullum and Vettori in there!

No, thats just the team the selectors probably though they'd be working with atm 5 or so years ago.

 

[Flem274*]

Btw, as much as I'd love to see the Fleming straight drive again, I doubt he'll come back.

Vettori I gather from media is pretty hard on his men, and McCullum, as DCYE famously said, is "they guy most likely to chuck you off a bridge for 20c". He's a bulldog, but unfortunately isn't the greatest captain from what we've seen, which is odd as he's always been thought highly of by both Vettori and Fleming as a great help in making fields.

The bowling? Well firstly enforcing a ban on bits and pieces players in domestic cricket would help (bye bye Diamanti and Yovich). ICL, we'll have to wait and see on. I'd like to get the internationals in domestic cricket, the Wellington and Auckland pace attacks in particular would murder most domestic sides. Also Otago playing Butler in FC and Canterbury playing Davidson more would be nice, there's promise there.

Meh, I'll stop blabbing and list some bowlers (pacers) that have a realistic chance of being test class:

Martin
O'Brien
Franklin
Southee
Bond
Tuffey
Adams
Mason
Wagner
Mills
Boult
Arnel
Butler
Davidson (tentative push here, I like him, but due to **** all FC games I can understand why some won't. Bowls straighter than McClennaghan though )

Now there's quite a few possibles, would go through and talk about the probables but cbf at this time of night. might post more on the topic later.

 

[thierry henry]

Vettori and McCullum are both soft in the head, rubbish captaincy choices imrarelyho

 

[S.P. Fleming]

give big fat jesse the captaincy!!

 

[S.P. Fleming]

seriously though, I see Ross Taylor as a future option there and looking 7-8 years down the track I have heard that Kane Williamson might be the type for the job. I agree with the common view on Vettori, a smart cricketer, a good VC but not enough of a leader. I think McCullum would do a much better job if he had Dan at his side using his brain.

 

[SJS]

By the way, why doesn't New Zealand tour the West Indies. Beteen 1975 and 1994 when West Indies were at their peak, the Kiwis made just one tour of Windies in 20 years !!

Can anyone explain why ?

[B]Decade	Home Series	Home Tests	Away Series	Away Tests[/B]

1950's	       2	       6	       0	0
1960's	       1	       3	       0	0
1970's	       1	       3	       1       	5
1980's	       1	       3	       1	4
1990's	       2	       4	       1	2
2000's	       2	       5	       1	2

[B]Overall	       9	     24	               4	13[/B]

 

[Zinzan]

SJS, I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but you are aware that Fleming is well and truly retired from all cricket and has been for 12 months, right?

Agree with this ...stupid suggestion - may as well bring back Astle, McMillan & Cairns while we're at it

 

[Polo23]

From what i've seen from Davidson he doesnt seem to bowl quick enough. A bit like Kyle Mills, the ball stops swinging and he's garbage due to his lack of pace.

 

[Krishna_j]

I do not have a clue as to how feasible this is. Fleming may have very strong personal views on that matter. I am purely suggesting what Kiwis need as of today and Flemings skill sets are best suited for that.

Fleming is past it now

Vettori is too nice to be an effective captain - need a bit more of aggro under the black cap

How about an interim stand-in captain like a Lee Germon

Not sure how Lee Germon was a stand-in captain - though his presence did keep the better keeper Parore out

Maybe worth exploring if there is a Lee Germon like lurking somewhere in domestic cricket

 

[Flem274*]

Fleming is past it now

Vettori is too nice to be an effective captain - need a bit more of aggro under the black cap

How about an interim stand-in captain like a Lee Germon

Not sure how Lee Germon was a stand-in captain - though his presence did keep the better keeper Parore out

Maybe worth exploring if there is a Lee Germon like lurking somewhere in domestic cricket

We don't need puppets thanks.

 

[harsh.ag]

NZ should consider the following top 7 going forward.

Latham
Raval
KW
Taylor
Guptill
Nicholls
Watling

They need the batting. This will make them a better test team.

 

[Athlai]

NZ should consider the following top 7 going forward.

Latham
Raval
KW
Taylor
Guptill
Nicholls
Watling

They need the batting. This will make them a better test team.

Less Nicholls more no rounders plz

 

[Dan]

More Tom Bruce pls

 

[Zinzan]

Vettori and McCullum are both soft in the head, rubbish captaincy choices imrarelyho

give big fat jesse the captaincy!!

Always fun looking back at yesteryear

 

[straw man]

Kinda nice to see that a great majority of the players speculated about at the start of the thread seven years ago are now either in the NZ side or at least well ensconced in the domestic scene. While I'm sure there's room for improvement the development/coaching must be doing something right to not lose top talent. Some of the future sides posted in 2009 include all the expected names and a few others, a good effort considering most were teenagers then.