India Breaks it Finally !!

[Krishna_j]

Zaheer got lucky, lucky that us Kiwi's are such ****ing idiots while batting. I maintain that he is hardly a great bowler. If O'Brien or Franklin were bowling to our players I'd find them more threatening, if Zaheer were bowling to Indian I'd think he'd be dominated.

Not sure if this is a self deprecating and self flagellating Kiwi trait which I see in many other threads as well .

 

[funnygirl]

Zaheer was not lucky,he was rewarded for some fantastic bowling .weren't u guys watching the same game ?

 

[funnygirl]

Agreed Zaheeri is quite mediocre but Ishant

Zaheer is far from mediocre .He was but not is.

 

[honestbharani]

He doesn't really get wickets when there is no swing but his control is amazing and he doesn't give too much away, keeps it tight and as Mongia said, seems to know when to go hard and when to go easy... A real experienced campaigner who is doing the best he can with his skillset...

 

[Flem274*]

I can see what Athlai means, O'Brien and Franklin would **** all over our current openers and as we all know exposure of Flynn and Taylor early means either 300 or 150a.o. Ryder and Vettori are the only batsmen in the team that I'd back to consistently score against our seamers, and thats including Oram (very vulnerable batsman to spin so I'd back Oram to have him).

 

[Athlai]

That is utter rubbish.

A concise argument you've made there.

 

[Krishna_j]

The series is won - the aberration addressed and the minnows put in their place

But for Dhoni's poor timing of declaration it would well have been 2-0 - full marks to Ross Taylor (reminds me of Alec Stewart) for preventing a complete collapse - pity NZ wasted Mc Callum so low in the order

Look forward to Down Under and the next series whenever it is

 

[SJS]

Hmm that's a very interesting statistic indeed.

Zaheer was an average bowler till about 2 years and a bit ago. However starting from the tour of South Africa in Dec 2007 he has had a much improved showing. This cant be denied even if we take the minnows separately. Have a look.

	[B]            [COLOR="DarkRed"]Minnows[/COLOR]		   [COLOR="DarkGreen"]Non Minnows[/COLOR]		
	        [COLOR="DarkRed"]Wkts	Avg	St Rt[/COLOR]	[COLOR="DarkGreen"]Wkts	Avg	St Rt[/COLOR][/B]
Upto Dec 2007	[COLOR="DarkRed"]29	29.6	53[/COLOR]	[COLOR="DarkGreen"]92	38.5	70[/COLOR]
Since Dec 2007	[COLOR="DarkRed"]8	21.9	30[/COLOR]	[COLOR="DarkGreen"]81	31.2	58[/COLOR]

The figures for non-minnows are still around 30 but the improvement is dramatic. He is not a world beater as the Indian commentators will have us believe but you have to remember that he is not young any more and he has found his line and length and control a bit late. He doesn't have too many big hauls. He does provide India with an initial break through but has not had many really innings-run-throughs. Those are what bring down your figures. Then bowling on home tracks is a pain. Against Australia he averaged 43.2 at home earlier this season. Indian bowlers will always suffer poor averages because half their bowling will be done at tracks still made for the fifties and sixties

 

[Smudge]

The series is won - the aberration addressed and the minnows put in their place

**** me dead. Arrogant much? It's Indian supporters like you that make me hope they're ground into the dust in their next few test series.

 

[Krishna_j]

Dream on

seriously playing the likes of Jamie How , Flynn , Mc Intosh , Southee, Mills et al in test cricket - can't see NZ climbing away from no 8 - your cupboard must be really bare


See the results over the last two years - even the last series against B'desh - but for Vettori's heroics it would have been a different tale - Bangladesh and NZ will be tarred with the same brush - maybe a different hue at best


i have posted in the past as well - Bring back your ICL players and coax one or two out of retirement , playing Franklin as a batting all rounder, Mc Cullum at 7 or 8 and dropping Jeet Patel and other selectorial quirks does'nt help your cause .

 

[Smudge]

i have posted in the past as well - Bring back your ICL players.

Looks like for all the arrogance you have, you're severely lacking in a sense of irony. Who's bully-boy board is the one actually preventing other test teams from bringing back their ICL-affiliated players?

 

[Krishna_j]

Looks like a thinly veiled attempt to pass on your current woes on the BCCI


There is a past precedent when Hadlee played in the NZ leg of WSC in 78-79 and played test cricket as well - circumstances were a bit different as Pak also played their WSC players - but they wagged a finger at the establishment

in any case i am not a supporter of the BCCI as well - hope someone takes a stand on the ICL issue

your men in white are not a patch on your men in black - whether its ODI or rugby and you may not lose sleep over it but its a brutal fact

 

[Uppercut]

Zaheer was an average bowler till about 2 years and a bit ago. However starting from the tour of South Africa in Dec 2007 he has had a much improved showing. This cant be denied even if we take the minnows separately. Have a look.

	[B]            [COLOR="DarkRed"]Minnows[/COLOR]		   [COLOR="DarkGreen"]Non Minnows[/COLOR]		
	        [COLOR="DarkRed"]Wkts	Avg	St Rt[/COLOR]	[COLOR="DarkGreen"]Wkts	Avg	St Rt[/COLOR][/B]
Upto Dec 2007	[COLOR="DarkRed"]29	29.6	53[/COLOR]	[COLOR="DarkGreen"]92	38.5	70[/COLOR]
Since Dec 2007	[COLOR="DarkRed"]8	21.9	30[/COLOR]	[COLOR="DarkGreen"]81	31.2	58[/COLOR]

The figures for non-minnows are still around 30 but the improvement is dramatic. He is not a world beater as the Indian commentators will have us believe but you have to remember that he is not young any more and he has found his line and length and control a bit late. He doesn't have too many big hauls. He does provide India with an initial break through but has not had many really innings-run-throughs. Those are what bring down your figures. Then bowling on home tracks is a pain. Against Australia he averaged 43.2 at home earlier this season. Indian bowlers will always suffer poor averages because half their bowling will be done at tracks still made for the fifties and sixties

Indeed, yes.

I like Zaheer as a bowler, have done since he destroyed England in 2007. Maybe it's just that i've always thought of him as a more proven performer than he is. Dale Steyn has been performing even better by quite a distance for longer than that now and people were calling him "unproven" and insisting his stats will get worse up until very recently. Somehow I've started to think of Zaheer as a really reliable performed and it surprised me to realise that, really, he hasn't actually had a great deal of success at all.

To watch, he has visibly improved.

 

[Pup Clarke]

A concise argument you've made there.

Didn't think I needed to go into great depth tbh, Zaheer bowled very, very well and it his was his good bowling and not poor shotplay that was the downfall of the batsman.

 

[Athlai]

Didn't think I needed to go into great depth tbh, Zaheer bowled very, very well and it his was his good bowling and not poor shotplay that was the downfall of the batsman.

It was a good spell and the bowling too was good but Zaheer is not the 'great' some are trying to make him out to be. He is just a solid Test performer.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

The series is won - the aberration addressed and the minnows put in their place

But for Dhoni's poor timing of declaration it would well have been 2-0 - full marks to Ross Taylor (reminds me of Alec Stewart) for preventing a complete collapse - pity NZ wasted Mc Callum so low in the order

Look forward to Down Under and the next series whenever it is

Dream on

seriously playing the likes of Jamie How , Flynn , Mc Intosh , Southee, Mills et al in test cricket - can't see NZ climbing away from no 8 - your cupboard must be really bare


See the results over the last two years - even the last series against B'desh - but for Vettori's heroics it would have been a different tale - Bangladesh and NZ will be tarred with the same brush - maybe a different hue at best


i have posted in the past as well - Bring back your ICL players and coax one or two out of retirement , playing Franklin as a batting all rounder, Mc Cullum at 7 or 8 and dropping Jeet Patel and other selectorial quirks does'nt help your cause .

Looks like a thinly veiled attempt to pass on your current woes on the BCCI


There is a past precedent when Hadlee played in the NZ leg of WSC in 78-79 and played test cricket as well - circumstances were a bit different as Pak also played their WSC players - but they wagged a finger at the establishment

in any case i am not a supporter of the BCCI as well - hope someone takes a stand on the ICL issue

your men in white are not a patch on your men in black - whether its ODI or rugby and you may not lose sleep over it but its a brutal fact

Piss off

 

[martin88]

It was a good spell and the bowling too was good but Zaheer is not the 'great' some are trying to make him out to be. He is just a solid Test performer.

Fully agree.

However, since World Cup 2007, he is 6th best pace bowler (behind Steyn, Johnson, Ntini, Lee and Sidebottom) in terms of wickets. And 5th in terms of averages among the top 6.

 

[Athlai]

Fully agree.

However, since World Cup 2007, he is 6th best pace bowler (behind Steyn, Johnson, Ntini, Lee and Sidebottom) in terms of wickets. And 5th in terms of averages among the top 6.

Steyn 128 @ 21.12 SR 36.2
Johnson 94 @ 28.01 SR 56.5
Ntini 80 @ 31.80 SR 57.3
Lee 79 @ 28.53 SR 53.8
Sidebottom 77 @ 26.87 SR 58.5
Khan 76 @ 30.44 SR 58.5
Anderson 71 @ 33.52 SR 61
Martin 54 @ 31.87 SR 59.6
Edwards 52 @ 34.67 SR 52.2
Morkel 52 @ 34.78 SR 56.8
Sharma 52 @ 33.15 SR 62.1
O'Brien 50 @ 29.28 SR 57.5

How would you rate them?

 

[martin88]

Steyn 128 @ 21.12 SR 36.2
Johnson 94 @ 28.01 SR 56.5
Ntini 80 @ 31.80 SR 57.3
Lee 79 @ 28.53 SR 53.8
Sidebottom 77 @ 26.87 SR 58.5
Khan 76 @ 30.44 SR 58.5
Anderson 71 @ 33.52 SR 61
Martin 54 @ 31.87 SR 59.6
Edwards 52 @ 34.67 SR 52.2
Morkel 52 @ 34.78 SR 56.8
Sharma 52 @ 33.15 SR 62.1
O'Brien 50 @ 29.28 SR 57.5

How would you rate them?

1. Steyn
2. Daylight
3. Johnson
4. Zaheer
5. Sidebottom
6. Lee
7. Anderson
8. O Brien
9. Sharma
10.Morkel
11.Edwards

This is my rating as of now.

 

[Pratters]

As a final stamp of how Zaheer has been good recently, he has made the Wisden World XI test team in their latest edition.