India Breaks it Finally !!

[honestbharani]

Welcome to the consequences of stating facts about the Indian team. I am frequently maligned on these forums for saying slightly negative things about the Indian team. I claimed that the Indian team is nowhere near the best team in the world, and a couple of people got annoyed. I say Zaheer and Ishant aren't the best opening pair in the world, and got some **** too. No degree of criticism is tolerated, but especially about Tendulkar.

I DO have a problem when you start rating Siddle/Johnson as better than Zaheer/Ishant though.. At least the Indians have played more than two series as frontline bowlers.....



But of course, it is always easy to play the sympathy card and act victim to the "Indian Mafia" here...

 

[Krishna_j]

Instead of the Micky Mouse IPL matches - vote for another India vs Australia Series

 

[Jono]

Welcome to the consequences of stating facts about the Indian team. I am frequently maligned on these forums for saying slightly negative things about the Indian team. I claimed that the Indian team is nowhere near the best team in the world, and a couple of people got annoyed. I say Zaheer and Ishant aren't the best opening pair in the world, and got some **** too. No degree of criticism is tolerated, but especially about Tendulkar.

Lol, don't compare your negativity which is borderline baiting with Uppercut stating his opinion.

 

[Flem274*]

Love how Krishna (btw you are no Indian God buddy) has retaliated by putting me in his signiture.

Anyway, this is getting interesting atm. We may have a game here.

 

[Uppercut]

There is a difference between telling that the sides were evenly matched or maybe Aussies a bit ahead and telling they were not "anywhere near" defeating Australia that series.. As I said, the Sydney Test could have gone a completely different route had it not been for the dire umpiring and Perth we won and Adelaide was a draw... And given Sydeny could have gone either way, for me, we were close enough to defeating Australia in Australia...

So basically, India would have won the series in Australia IF

• Several decisions in the second test had gone their way
• India had gone on to win the match
• Australia had still gone on to lose the match in Perth
• The final test had still been a draw

Ridiculous amount of conjecture. I may as well say i could have played for Australia IF

• I was Australian
• I was good at cricket

And that's only changing two things.

 

[honestbharani]

So basically, India would have won the series in Australia IF

• Several decisions in the second test had gone their way
• India had gone on to win the match
• Australia had still gone on to lose the match in Perth
• The final test had still been a draw

Ridiculous amount of conjecture. I may as well say i could have played for Australia IF

• I was Australian
• I was good at cricket

And that's only changing two things.

When you say India WEREN'T anywhere close to winning, that is conjecture as well.


The difference between the two things that stops you from playing for Australia are not events that SHOULD have happened. On the other hand, expecting blatantly obvious decisions to be given correctly is something that can be expected to happen more often than not...


And reg. the 3rd and 4th tests, we can assume something about the first test too.. Why let that one alone outside? As far as I am concerned, Aus won one test convincingly, we won one test and the 2nd one could have gone either way but for ridiculously poor umpiring decisions (and we were only few balls away from saving it even in that case, HARDLY anywhere near, as you put it)... So while we probably didn't deserve to win the series (Australia didn't either, IMO, but that is another story) we were close enough to have won a series in Australia, at least to a much bigger extent than you seem to be imagining.



Expecting blatantly obvious decisions to be given correctly IS NOT a ridiculous amount of conjecture... You saying India were not ANYWHERE NEAR winning it, IS....

 

[Krishna_j]

x

Expecting blatantly obvious decisions to be given correctly IS NOT a ridiculous amount of conjecture... You saying India were not ANYWHERE NEAR winning it, IS....

Completely agree with honestbharani

A series Down Under with the best umpires - never mind nationality - Simon Taufell , Billy Bowden and Rudi Koertzen would create a level playing field and eliminate marginal decisions going in favour of Aus

 

[Smudge]

So... have you found any footage of David O'Sullivan bowling his leggies yet, Krishna?

 

[silentstriker]

The opinion that India weren't really anywhere near winning in Australia is just another of those thoughts, but this time, i get jumped on. Strange.

Gotta say - I thought it would have been a draw for sure, at the very least, had the umpiring been fair.

But then, would Australia still have lost the Perth test? I'm not sure.

I think post-Adelaide, I think you can make the argument that India were the better team. Post Sydney, India won 3 and lost none of the next seven Tests against Australia. But India still lost the Adelaide Test pretty convincingly. Part of that was match practice, but in this environment, that's not an excuse and you have to make do.

In any case, Mitchell Johnson is just oozing class right now. He's awesome and I'd definitely put him there with the best in the world, without a doubt higher than Ishant and Zaheer. Although, I'll say that Brett Lee in that India series was awesome too, as good as or better than Johnson is now.

If he can recreate that form with an in-form Johnson, and if Stuart Clark comes back, they'll start blowing sides away. That's a frighteningly good and balanced pace attack.

 

[Uppercut]

Gotta say - I thought it would have been a draw for sure, at the very least, had the umpiring been fair.

But then, would Australia still have lost the Perth test? I'm not sure.

I think post-Adelaide, I think you can make the argument that India were the better team. Post Sydney, India won 3 and lost none of the next seven Tests against Australia. But India still lost the Adelaide Test pretty convincingly. Part of that was match practice, but in this environment, that's not an excuse and you have to make do.

I'd actually agree with all of that- decent umpiring and Sydney probably would have ended up a draw, I'm not sure that India still would have won in Perth but even assuming they did, that's still only a 1-1. And at 1-1 going into the final test, it's a whole different situation to the actuality where Australia played out a draw.

So it takes a bit of conjecture to say India were close to drawing the series, but it's fair to say that they weren't far from it. It's not like the series wasn't a good contest, in many ways a draw would have been a fairer result. But saying India were close to actually winning the series in Australia is a few miles too far for me, and i doubt there's many non-Indians who would disagree.

In any case, Mitchell Johnson is just oozing class right now. He's awesome and I'd definitely put him there with the best in the world, without a doubt higher than Ishant and Zaheer. Although, I'll say that Brett Lee in that India series was awesome too, as good as or better than Johnson is now.

If he can recreate that form with an in-form Johnson, and if Stuart Clark comes back, they'll start blowing sides away. That's a frighteningly good and balanced pace attack.

I think there'll be certain pitches, particularly in India and Sri Lanka, where the Murali-Mendis or Harb-Mishra combination will have the better of them. Other than that, they're looking pretty lethal. Johnson's a class above every other quick at the moment (possibly bar Dale Steyn) and then you factor in his batting... bad news for everyone else. The afternoon spell in the second test where he took two wickets in his first over then broke Smith's hand and Kallis's face was probably the best spell of bowling I've seen since 2005. Maybe even ever.

 

[silentstriker]

That was excellent. But I distinctly remember some of Lee's consistant 145-150kph spells in India-Australia series that were absolutely a pace bowler at the absolute peak of his powers. It was some amazing stuff. Johnson is also rapid, so potentially, Australia have two opening bowlers at 145-150kph, and with someone like Stuart Clark as the other guy. It would be insane. They'd do fine even in India IMO, with a decent backup spin or pace bowler who can keep it tight.

 

[Arjun]

Rather than gloss over how much the Indians have achieved, why not look at what they need to do to get ahead?

 

[Flem274*]

Catch the ball and bowl straight in this particular test.

 

[Krishna_j]

..and borrow jessie ryder as well

 

[Arjun]

The Indians should look at playing two regular spinners in Test matches everywhere, not just at home. They have got one of the best spinners in international cricket sitting on the bench, while a very average third seamer keeps getting a match. Spin is India's advantage over teams outside the subcontinent. Their third seamer provides no advantage.

The Indians need to approach a game on a flat wicket differently. They have no clue while bowling and fielding, and can't make the most of it when batting. Maybe a few flat-track overlords will help, and a second skill will be a bonus.

 

[Krishna_j]

Catch the ball and bowl straight in this particular test.

Seriously I cannot think of India getting out of jail and batting for 7 sessions against any other credible test side inspite of Sehwag's impetuousness and the two dubious decisions handed out of the 4 fallen wickets .

great application from Gambhir , Dravid and Laxman - Sehwag not on the field certainly helped

 

[Burgey]

Seriously I cannot think of India getting out of jail and batting for 7 sessions against any other credible test side inspite of Sehwag's impetuousness and the two dubious decisions handed out of the 4 fallen wickets .

great application from Gambhir , Dravid and Laxman - Sehwag not on the field certainly helped

Salvage a draw and still bang on about umpires?

Jeez.....

 

[Flem274*]

Seriously I cannot think of India getting out of jail and batting for 7 sessions against any other credible test side inspite of Sehwag's impetuousness and the two dubious decisions handed out of the 4 fallen wickets .

great application from Gambhir , Dravid and Laxman - Sehwag not on the field certainly helped

Give 'em Napier and they will.

*bitch comment* unless Clarke is bowling

 

[Krishna_j]

Bring back Woodward and Hastie for Wellington

 

[silentstriker]

Salvage a draw and still bang on about umpires?

Jeez.....

Umpiring was bad regardless of whether India won, lost or drew. There were some bad decisions against New Zealand in the first Test match too, which India won.