Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
Hiya Geoff.
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
Kevin Pietersen
- Thread starter Langeveldt
- Start date
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Brilliant, wonderfully glib answer, tell me where I'm inaccurate?
Before you mention the Ashes I'd say without him being such a lousy catcher, we wouldn't of needed a draw at the Oval.
Uppercut
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Hum, interesting. Do you think the West Indies would have won more games without Brian Lara?
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Not sure to be fair, but KP is no Brian Lara.
England were on a winning run of Test series when KP joined us, and seemed to be on an up. I really wish Thorpe hadn't retired. Not sure if the same could be said with Lara.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
The results were better, but we had Thorpe. The only series Pietersen played which Thorpe also would have is the 05 Ashes, ie he was going to retire after them anyway. Who would you have in the side instead of him?
The results were better before him because we had more good players than we do now. Many of those have now retired, I fail to see how you could possibly suggest he has a detrimental effect on results. Jesus, if it wasn't for him we'd have somehow contrived to lose the last Ashes 10-0.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Don't get your points at all, because we had practically the same side before and after
Simon Jones wasn't much part of our success before, so his injury isn't relevant really.
Thorpe retired because he was ousted from the side by KP (and Bell admittedly which is horrific in retrospect). I just believe kevin's ego has been detrimental to the side, so we've performed poorer then our constituent parts, rather then better.
It's all opinion though, and yes losing 10-0 would of been awful......
I think you know that it doesn't really work like that. The reason England won more matches before he starting playing was because they were a better side. England's decline can in no way be put down to Pietersen. As I have said I don't think he is really an unpleasant person, just one the sometimes says stupid thing and lacks that subetldy or maybe intelligence to realise their negative impact. He is always going to stand out as an individual due to his personality and his ability but if you take his England career as a whole it is very hard to argue he has had a negative effect on team moral or results.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Well, yes and no. In Pakistan yeah sure, Simon Jones was the only man missing, aside from Vaughan in one Test. And incidentally that probably was Pietersen's worst series.Don't get your points at all, because we had practically the same side before and after
Simon Jones wasn't much part of our success before, so his injury isn't relevant really.
Thorpe retired because he was ousted from the side by KP (and Bell admittedly which is horrific in retrospect). I just believe kevin's ego has been detrimental to the side, so we've performed poorer then our constituent parts, rather then better.
It's all opinion though, and yes losing 10-0 would of been awful......
From then on though - we were without Vaughan & Tresco in India, and they never played in the same side again. We never fielded the same pace attack, Flintoff has been in and out side, Giles went into decline, Geraint Jones went by the wayside. So really, the core of the Ashes team never really played again after Pakistan.
It pisses me off when you hear players compain about touring (it only ever seems to be the English), are they forgetting they're living the dream? They get paid huge amounts and have every whim taken care of. Complaining about not seeing your wife for a couple of months, man up bitch. I know men in Afghanistan who haven't seen their families for 6 months and who are under just a tad more pressure than a bloody cricket player. I can't believe Pietersen whinges to the press (and I use that term loosely) and then has the gal to even think of himself as professional. If he'd tried this **** in any other profession he'd have been thrown to the dogs no matter how good he was.
He caught a rough deal with the captaincy, well that's just how English cricket works and he's here through his own choices, given his personality a situation like this was always going to happen somewhere down the line. A professional would have kept his mouth shut and been the bigger man, got it done on the pitch and not given his detractors any ammunition.
Considering he's been given the captaincy of his IPL franchise (ahead of Rahul Dravid, Jaques Kallis, Mark Boucher and Anil Kumble which frankly disgusts me) it will be interesting to see where his career goes from here. It wouldn't suprise me if the IPL becomes his no.1 priority, especially if he has a good tournament.
He caught a rough deal with the captaincy, well that's just how English cricket works and he's here through his own choices, given his personality a situation like this was always going to happen somewhere down the line. A professional would have kept his mouth shut and been the bigger man, got it done on the pitch and not given his detractors any ammunition.
Considering he's been given the captaincy of his IPL franchise (ahead of Rahul Dravid, Jaques Kallis, Mark Boucher and Anil Kumble which frankly disgusts me) it will be interesting to see where his career goes from here. It wouldn't suprise me if the IPL becomes his no.1 priority, especially if he has a good tournament.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
My point is that the likes of Giles, Tresco, Hoggard, Geraint Jones were better without KPs influence, so your making my point for me. Every week seems to bring a new story about Kev's disruptiveness.
As I've said it's just my belief after watching England play and looking at the body language, I'm probably wrong, I normally am
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Hey, it's all opinion at the end of the day and you're perfectly entitled to yours, I have no problem with that.
But if the likes of Giles & Hoggard's performances declined because of a 25-year old batsman, does that say more about him or them? And I don't really think it would be fair to connect anything to do with Trescothick to Pietersen.
I dunno, I've heard him getting behind plenty of the players at different times through the press. I guess we'll only know for sure when all these players bring out their post-central contract autobiographies
But if the likes of Giles & Hoggard's performances declined because of a 25-year old batsman, does that say more about him or them? And I don't really think it would be fair to connect anything to do with Trescothick to Pietersen.
I dunno, I've heard him getting behind plenty of the players at different times through the press. I guess we'll only know for sure when all these players bring out their post-central contract autobiographies
Langeveldt
Soutie
Well if it's a direct quote, unaltered, then they havent really done much but tell me, have they? It's not like they are adding a biased opinion to it
Woodster
International Captain
I feel KP was treated very shabbily by the ECB, and the thought of a chat to KP and sensible explanation by someone important at the ECB is obviously beyond rational thinking. It's disappointing that the ECB have caused more problems than found solutions.
As regards KP's comments about it being a long tour, wanting to get home and missing his wife ? Why is this news ? All the squad have probably thought/said this, but with KP it's always a bigger story.
Is he selfish and does he disrupt the squad ? I think he has immense determination to succeed and fulfil all his ambitions of scoring runs and becoming the greatest batsman in the world, if he does that, then surely it will benefit the England side. His detrimental effect on the squad I'm not 100% sure about, he talks a lot about himself and what he can become, that's just focus, not selfish. He may upset players at times because he wants to be in the best side, he cannot accept mediocrity.
As regards KP's comments about it being a long tour, wanting to get home and missing his wife ? Why is this news ? All the squad have probably thought/said this, but with KP it's always a bigger story.
Is he selfish and does he disrupt the squad ? I think he has immense determination to succeed and fulfil all his ambitions of scoring runs and becoming the greatest batsman in the world, if he does that, then surely it will benefit the England side. His detrimental effect on the squad I'm not 100% sure about, he talks a lot about himself and what he can become, that's just focus, not selfish. He may upset players at times because he wants to be in the best side, he cannot accept mediocrity.
Langeveldt
Soutie
I think KP treated the whole thing with contempt.. You do realize that he made his ultimatum via SMS when on safari?
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
You don't. And the fact that you don't give a toss means you have precisely zero right to preach to other people that they should feel the way you do. Some people's loved ones mean more to them than other people's loved ones; some people absolutely detest being apart from their loved ones, while others don't mind so much.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Yeah, that's right, England would've won at Lord's had someone other than him been fielding.
TT Boy
Hall of Fame Member
****, where am I preaching?
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
No, Thorpe retired because he was 35, had an increasingly weakening back and no-one can go on forever. Thorpe was never, under any circumstance, going to play beyond the 2005 summer. He signed a coaching contract in Australia before the series against Bangladesh.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
By intimating "who gives a toss about not seeing family", which you are by saying "I haven’t seen my family in over nine months. Who gives a toss?".