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***Official India in New Zealand***

Precambrian

Banned
WHAT YOU SAID:



The first part of the sentence questions Laxman in swinging conditions. Arjun said L axman is suspect. I don't see how Laxman is suspect given how he has played his entire career despite 3 poor tests in bowler friendly minefield wickets. Why even bring his average in NZ into the picture given the series which had occured in 2002-03.
Let's look at Laxman's stats in conditions where the ball is known to swing:

Code:
[B]Opposition	Matches	Innings	Nos	Runs	HS	Average	 SR	100s	50s	0s[/B]
in England	7	11	2	404	74	 44.88 	 46.75 	0	3	0
in New Zealand	3	4	0	27	23	 6.75 	 37.50 	0	0	2
in South Africa	7	12	3	370	89	 41.11 	 45.06 	0	3	0
[B]TOTAL		17	27	5	801	89	 36.41 	 45.00 	 -   	6	2[/B]
That average is not exactly what I will call World Class. And to say the figures are even skewed a bit due to the NOs.

Not a single hundred and just 6 50s in 27 innings.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
I would remove those 3 tests v NZ. Were a farce. Rest is quite okay - 45 and 41.
 
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Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Pretty good. But not good as in world class. And the combined averages don't really talk for themselves in favor of Laxman as a master in swinging conditions, do they?
Combined averages favour Laxman. If RSA is the standard, Tendulkar and others can't play swing bowling either. You are just picking holes for the sake of it. Any ways, it is England where it swings most, not South Africa or New Zealand.
 

Precambrian

Banned
Combined averages favour Laxman. If RSA is the standard, Tendulkar and others can't play swing bowling either. You are just picking holes for the sake of it. Any ways, it is England where it swings most, not South Africa or New Zealand.
Had it been only SA, then you have a counter-argument in Tendulkar's averages.

However, you forget Tendulkar's 60+ average in England, and 40+ average in NZ.

Laxman has mediocre averages in all the three countries. Coincidence? I think not!
 

Precambrian

Banned
Did you watch that series? As I said, it was a complete farce.
No it was not a farce by any means. It is just that for a change, that series was heavily skewed in favor of bowlers. If that is the criteria, then you'd want to discount many of Indians' performances in the subcontinent in dull bore fests. Including those of Laxman.
 

Evermind

International Debutant
Pretty good. But not good as in world class. And the combined averages don't really talk for themselves in favor of Laxman as a master in swinging conditions, do they?
Nah, an average of 43 is pretty good for SA and Eng. That NZ series is an aberration.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Laxman mediocre average in NZ - I HAVE ALREADY EXPLAINED.

in ENG - DECENT.

In RSA - DECENT

In AUS (you cant forget it if you are considering rsa and nzl) - 50s.

'nuff said.
 

Precambrian

Banned
Nah, an average of 43 is pretty good for SA and Eng. That NZ series is an aberration.
Standalone they may look good. However the common theme is that all three countries aid swing the most, and Laxman has not got a single century anywhere. That tells a story.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
India Pakistan and Sri Lanka in South Africa:

(at least 300 runs)

Tendulkar 835 @ 39.76
Ganguly 506 @ 36.14
Dravid 504 @ 33.60
Inzi 445 @ 31.78
Sangakkara 392 @ 39.20
Laxman 370 @ 41.11
Mahmood 327 @ 65.40
Jayawardene 314 @ 31.40
Atapattu 307 @ 21.92

Good ol' Azhar Mahmood is the only Sub-continental player to have done better than Laxman (though Tendulkar is close enough for arguments sake).

Can't ask for much better.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
No it was not a farce by any means. It is just that for a change, that series was heavily skewed in favor of bowlers. If that is the criteria, then you'd want to discount many of Indians' performances in the subcontinent in dull bore fests. Including those of Laxman.
Pitches were a minefield. It was not a series. Can't assess Laxman based on it.
 

Precambrian

Banned
Laxman mediocre average in NZ - I HAVE ALREADY EXPLAINED.

in ENG - DECENT.

In RSA - DECENT

In AUS (you cant forget it if you are considering rsa and nzl) - 50s.

'nuff said.
It is quite inappropriate to consider Aus among the countries which aid swing because barring perhaps Brisbane, nowhere really the ball swings as in the other 3 countries.

And your explanation is not really valid enough to remove his NZ records from his performances.

Plus, his average in SA and Eng, particularly England, where since 90s, there has not been a single world class bowler, (Richard might disagree, but I mean world class on a consistent basis), his average is quite mediocre for a World Class batsman.
 

Precambrian

Banned
India Pakistan and Sri Lanka in South Africa:

(at least 300 runs)

Tendulkar 835 @ 39.76
Ganguly 506 @ 36.14
Dravid 504 @ 33.60
Inzi 445 @ 31.78
Sangakkara 392 @ 39.20
Laxman 370 @ 41.11
Mahmood 327 @ 65.40
Jayawardene 314 @ 31.40
Atapattu 307 @ 21.92

Good ol' Azhar Mahmood is the only Sub-continental player to have done better than Laxman (though Tendulkar is close enough for arguments sake).

Can't ask for much better.
What is exactly the point you are trying to make? The players below him Jaya and Attapattu are very mediocre batsmen outside subcontinent.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
It is quite inappropriate to consider Aus among the countries which aid swing because barring perhaps Brisbane, nowhere really the ball swings as in the other 3 countries.

And your explanation is not really valid enough to remove his NZ records from his performances.

Plus, his average in SA and Eng, particularly England, where since 90s, there has not been a single world class bowler, (Richard might disagree, but I mean world class on a consistent basis), his average is quite mediocre for a World Class batsman.
I will merely agree to disagree with you and end it here.

Cheers. :sleep:
 

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