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*Official* England in West Indies

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Boycott talks eminent sense as usual.

Question : ...a lot is being said about Ian Bell showing great potential and form in the nets but being unable to carry it to the field. As far as your memory serves, who are the three most notable failed talents you can recall - people you thought had great potential but for some reason or the other couldn't fulfill it? And for such situations, is there a role that selectors and team management can play to help such players?

Boycott : Yes, there have been some players like that. The most notable one in recent times is Mark Ramprakash for England. I was the judge in a big one-day competition in England and I chose him as Man of the Match for making 50 in a low-scoring game when he was 19. I actually saw him make his first first-class hundred against my county, Yorkshire. But he never managed to do it at the top level. Mark has played 52 Tests; he looks immaculate and is technically correct, but he got only two hundreds at an average of 27.33. That's not really good - you are not going to win Tests with an average of 27.

Today in the England side you have people like Monty Panesar, who has played 30-odd Tests. But Shane Warne says that he has played one Test 30-odd times because he hasn't changed his bowling; he hasn't learnt a lot from his first Test.

Steve Harmison, at 6 feet 5 inches, has got pace and bounce, but except for one fleeting moment when he was ranked the No. 1 Test bowler in the world after his performance in the West Indies [in 2004], he has been quite disappointing. Everybody will remember his first ball in an Ashes game in Brisbane [2006] that he bowled wide of second slip.

Another guy has been Bill Athey, who played for Yorkshire - I played a little bit with him before I finished. He played 23 Tests for England and was technically correct but managed only one hundred at an average of 22.9.

The key to it is the demons in their head. All these batsmen have been technically correct batsmen, but it just shows that batting is a bit more than technique. A great deal of it is played in the mind. And this is the point that I always try to make: when you are watching young players, you can see their talent and their technique, but you really cannot see their character or what is there in their head until they are put in situations where their temperament is tested. That you can only see over a period of time.

Is there anything that the selectors or the team management can do to help them? Well, you can talk to them and try and help them, but in the end, once you are batting, you are on your own. It is a thinking game; you have got use your brain. It is like playing chess with people. The bowler tries to move you around by testing you out and bowling different things. You have got to be up to it and have a quick mind to work it out, and if you can't, you have a problem.

Its much more fun hearing Boycott
 

tooextracool

International Coach
I imagine that they thought they'd give Davies a try (fair enough). Once they had made that decision it was a pretty sensible decision to take the opportunity to give Prior a rest for this game rather than play him as a specialist batsman.
Prior is a very very poor limited overs player and Davies has a better List A record. Even though Davies has a highest score of 30 in t-20 cricket, I hope that we dont see Prior coming anywhere near the ODI XI as his keeping and batting do not amount to anything much.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Side was a shocker (Batty, Khan...) but I can't get why Strauss is coming in 6 in a 20/20 game. He shouldn't be in the side of course but If he is going to play, stick him as opener or hide him at 11.
If you can think of a better bowler than Batty who is not injured and is not 33+ years old, Id like to hear it.

Khan was obviously a shocker, that was a given the moment they announced his name for the squad.
 
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tooextracool

International Coach
If someone was being harsh then I guess the England attack could be described as; 2 guys that dont look where they bowl and spray it all over, 1 average multi-national dobber, 1 tall inaccurate medium pacer and a pub cricketer.
Honestly has to be one of the worst England bowling attacks put on the field. However, I do think a fully fit English bowling attack of Flintoff, Broad, Sidebottom, Swann and Dimi is a fairly capable one especially if you throw in the likes of Killeen.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Honestly has to be one of the worst England bowling attacks put on the field. However, I do think a fully fit English bowling attack of Flintoff, Broad, Sidebottom, Swann and Dimi is a fairly capable one especially if you throw in the likes of Killeen.
:huh: He hardly gets a gig outside of the Riverside or when he does it has to be overcast and the wicket turgid. His nothing more then a Mickey Mouse county bowler who has found a niche for himself like Jeremy Snape once did.

At least the likes of Khan are good enough to play county cricket...
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
If you can think of a better bowler than Batty who is not injured and is not 33+ years old, Id like to hear it.

Khan was obviously a shocker, that was a given the moment they announced his name for the squad.
You don't stipulate it has to be a spinner so I'll take practically any (not Killeen of course) decent county seamer (Ali, Plunkett, Mahmood, Pattinson, Murtagh, Bresnan et cetera) over Batty.

There is no logical rationale for him even being in the 20/20 or ODI side. Tredwell was the 'best' English spinner in 20/20 cricket last year, Batty had a poor season full-stop.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Khan only gets a go because he plays for Kent. He'd struggle to make Durham's second XI. In ANY format.
 
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tooextracool

International Coach
:huh: He hardly gets a gig outside of the Riverside or when he does it has to be overcast and the wicket turgid. His nothing more then a Mickey Mouse county bowler who has found a niche for himself like Jeremy Snape once did.

At least the likes of Khan are good enough to play county cricket...
I dont know much about him, but he has a fairly decent List A record and Richard has talked him up around here so I didnt think he could be quite that bad. I dont think Khan is likely to ever be a consistently good bowler with his bowling action to be honest and his record is atrocious in limited overs.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
You don't stipulate it has to be a spinner so I'll take practically any (not Killeen of course) decent county seamer (Ali, Plunkett, Mahmood, Pattinson, Murtagh, Bresnan et cetera) over Batty.

There is no logical rationale for him even being in the 20/20 or ODI side. Tredwell was the 'best' English spinner in 20/20 cricket last year, Batty had a poor season full-stop.
I dont quite understand the logic here. Plunkett, Mahmood and Ali have all been proven failures (not just failures but spectacular failures at that) at the ODI level, it beggars belief that anyone can support their selection, Id rather have a batsman over them. Looking at List A records:

Gareth Batty: 33@4.52
Liam Plunkett:31@5.28
Sajid Mahmood: 27@5.19
Kabir Ali: 25@5.14
Darren Pattinson: 24@4.92
Tim Murtagh:27@5.15
Tim Bresnan: 35@4.96
James Tredwell: 33@4.72

Almost all those bowlers, bar Batty are haemorrhaging runs at over 5 runs an over. Batty is by far the most economical bowler on that list and I couldnt care less if hes not very good, Id still take him over the 4 clowns who managed to concede a game where they had over 300 on the board within the first 15 overs. (HowSTAT! ODI Scorecard)
 

andrew9120

Cricket Spectator
Wrong signals from England

I cant help but feel that dropping Matt Prior is just symptomatic of wider problems within the England set up. Anyone can see that Prior is in great form. Is it not sending a dangerous message to players: perform well and you will still get dropped (from what is a crucial warm up game) in favour of experimenting with a debutant. I was really worried as well to hear Strauss dismissing Prior as being a middle order batsmen. Why then has he been opening the batting in limited overs cricket for Sussex and England?

This all adds to an air of confusion, Prior is playing well so we will drop him in favour of an experiment. Prior opens the batting well for his county and has done for England but he is a middle order batsmen.

(I appreciate that there are so many problems with this England side that Priors lack of selection seems a strange place to focus upon but you have to start somewhere!!!)
 

Jigga988

State 12th Man
Back from my sebbatical and with that comes Ucut's new avatar... been a lot of abuse about Sammy being an avatar bet dodger, so hoping Ucut will not follow suit...

http://www.juicebrighton.com/files/blogs/graham norton.jpg

thats the link... hoping the moderators wont mind

20-20 was laughable btw from an England POV, England really are a shambles in that format, and I don't know how all Windies regional boys are better than all are international boys at fielding, it's highly frustrating and odd though I'm sure we'll field poorly again in the OD series...
 

Jigga988

State 12th Man
I cant help but feel that dropping Matt Prior is just symptomatic of wider problems within the England set up. Anyone can see that Prior is in great form. Is it not sending a dangerous message to players: perform well and you will still get dropped (from what is a crucial warm up game) in favour of experimenting with a debutant. I was really worried as well to hear Strauss dismissing Prior as being a middle order batsmen. Why then has he been opening the batting in limited overs cricket for Sussex and England?

This all adds to an air of confusion, Prior is playing well so we will drop him in favour of an experiment. Prior opens the batting well for his county and has done for England but he is a middle order batsmen.

(I appreciate that there are so many problems with this England side that Priors lack of selection seems a strange place to focus upon but you have to start somewhere!!!)
I would agree with Strauss though, Prior's opened for Sussex and done well in 50 over cricket, but in the international level he's been shocking... would prefer him to finish a game for England as opposed to start one, Prior is to mixed up at the start of a game and doesn't know his role for England there, much better finishing one off, especially now there's no Flintoff...
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
England busy blaming everything else except themselves, and talking an absolute pile of **** in the process

"I've not seamed a ball for four months. I can't wait to bowl in England again."
Stuart Broad

"It is a graveyard for fast bowlers, county cricket."
Nasser Hussain
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I dont quite understand the logic here. Plunkett, Mahmood and Ali have all been proven failures (not just failures but spectacular failures at that) at the ODI level, it beggars belief that anyone can support their selection, Id rather have a batsman over them. Looking at List A records:

Gareth Batty: 33@4.52
Liam Plunkett:31@5.28
Sajid Mahmood: 27@5.19
Kabir Ali: 25@5.14
Darren Pattinson: 24@4.92
Tim Murtagh:27@5.15
Tim Bresnan: 35@4.96
James Tredwell: 33@4.72

Almost all those bowlers, bar Batty are haemorrhaging runs at over 5 runs an over. Batty is by far the most economical bowler on that list and I couldnt care less if hes not very good, Id still take him over the 4 clowns who managed to concede a game where they had over 300 on the board within the first 15 overs. (HowSTAT! ODI Scorecard)
:laugh: Love that match. Should have had GI Joe's accompanying laughter track IMO.
 

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