*Official* England in West Indies

[four_or_six]

To be fair to Ramdin, he's only 23 years old even though he's played a lot of matches, so there's plenty of time for improvement. This series may have given him confidence, and his average could get up a fair bit yet.

 

[zaremba]

Ah, I see. Well, I'm a tad fond of the word TBH, so you may have to get used to it.

Or you might want to look up what it means

You could rename yourself Fortuitous-Seamer perhaps

 

[Jarquis]

There's a full-stop after Latif; I daresay you thought that was a comma. It changes the whole context of the sentence.

He was merely saying that Jayawardene's batting (along with Healy's, Boucher's etc) > Ramdin's. Only Stewart and Haddin were deemed by Richard to be worthy of batsmendome.

You are indeed correct that I mistook the full stop after Latif for a comma.
Thus retract my statement of Richard contradicting himself.

 

[roseboy64]

Bravo back for the T20 BTW.

 

[aussie]

Unfortunately, the Windies don’t seem to have many better options (Marshall, Hinds et cetera) and I think if Bravo batted top six he could average over 30 comfortably. Ramdin for me isn’t good for more then twenty odd consistently but who else can keep? Whilst Nash at four sure beats having Marshall or Hinds at four.

Bravo got the potential to be a top 6 bat no doubt. But to date in his career, he batting is too eratic, so # 7 is the safest bet for him

Ramdin is their best option, but just not a test match number 7.

Chanderpaul/Nash #5 & #6 is a solid middle order balance, that i don't think the windies should distrupt at all.

The problems are finding a partner for Gayle & a # 4 bat. Simmons could take one of those spots in the long term, but yea overall these two roles is a cat & mouse ATM.

 

[Steulen]

Almost every team struggles to get a good top 6 together; the Windies are up there with most other teams having Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul and Nash (a limited cricketer but perfect middle order glue), with Simmons a promising 5th batsman. Their main problem is the horrible bowling attack. Taylor and Edwards might get a role as 3rd/4th seamer in another test team but only if that team could afford the luxury (say the way SA could carry Morne Morkel or the great Australian team could carry Brett Lee in the presence of McGrath, Gillespie and Warne). With a proper bowling attack, Windies could well be the 4th-best Test team after the big three of Aus, SA and India.

 

[roseboy64]

Almost every team struggles to get a good top 6 together; the Windies are up there with most other teams having Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul and Nash (a limited cricketer but perfect middle order glue), with Simmons a promising 5th batsman. Their main problem is the horrible bowling attack. Taylor and Edwards might get a role as 3rd/4th seamer in another test team but only if that team could afford the luxury (say the way SA could carry Morne Morkel or the great Australian team could carry Brett Lee in the presence of McGrath, Gillespie and Warne). With a proper bowling attack, Windies could well be the 4th-best Test team after the big three of Aus, SA and India.

Serious underestimation of Taylor there. 7th ranked Test bowler ATM with stats getting better all the time.
Edwards is always a threat to batsmen with his pace. His action though doesn't give him much room for error though and he can be erratic at times as a result. Once he adds a couple more skills to his arsenal he'll be alright.
In other words, the bowling attack could become decent to good with the addition of a pacer to either partner with Edwards or be first change and selecting one of spinners better than Benn. Also, Bravo is a pretty handy bowler and Gayle is decent enough with the ball. Makings of an attack there with the addition of two bowlers. Collins' contract ends this year so we'll see what happens there.

 

[roseboy64]

Bravo got the potential to be a top 6 bat no doubt. But to date in his career, he batting is too eratic, so # 7 is the safest bet for him

Ramdin is their best option, but just not a test match number 7.

Chanderpaul/Nash #5 & #6 is a solid middle order balance, that i don't think the windies should distrupt at all.

The problems are finding a partner for Gayle & a # 4 bat. Simmons could take one of those spots in the long term, but yea overall these two roles is a cat & mouse ATM.

IMO Bravo should be at 5 between Chanders and Nash but would have no prob with him at 4. Push him up the order and give him additional responsibility. Could be a good move.

 

[shivfan]

Call me old-fashioned, but I believe that a wicketkeeper's day job has to be behind the stumps. Like Holding, I think the wickie's glovework is more important than his batting, and as far as I can see, there is no-one in the Caribbean who's a better keeper than Ramdin right now....

Granted, he's probably not good enough to bat at seven, so I would drop him down to eight. Similarly, Bravo is not consistent enough to hold on to number six, a lot like Flintoff in that respect. So, maybe Bravo could bat at seven.

1) Gayle
2) Other opener
3) Sarwan
4) Hinds/Simmons/someone else
5) Chanderpaul
6) Nash
7) Bravo
8) Ramdin
9) Taylor
10) Benn
11) Edwards

But if the WIndies are in a must-win situation, and are going for the win in England, this could be the team....

1) Gayle
2) Other opener
3) Sarwan
4) Nash
5) Chanderpaul
6) Bravo
7) Ramdin
8) Sammy
9) Taylor
10) Benn
11) Edwards

 

[Steulen]

Serious underestimation of Taylor there. 7th ranked Test bowler ATM with stats getting better all the time.
Edwards is always a threat to batsmen with his pace. His action though doesn't give him much room for error though and he can be erratic at times as a result. Once he adds a couple more skills to his arsenal he'll be alright.
In other words, the bowling attack could become decent to good with the addition of a pacer to either partner with Edwards or be first change and selecting one of spinners better than Benn. Also, Bravo is a pretty handy bowler and Gayle is decent enough with the ball. Makings of an attack there with the addition of two bowlers. Collins' contract ends this year so we'll see what happens there.

Taylor's not consistent enough, imo. Capable of devastating spells and absolute dross in equal measure; he's part Johnson and part Powell in that respect. I don't think he would get into the current Australian, SAfrican or Indian team. Anyone can get a gig with England, so they'd probably have him.

 

[roseboy64]

Taylor's not consistent enough, imo. Capable of devastating spells and absolute dross in equal measure; he's part Johnson and part Powell in that respect. I don't think he would get into the current Australian, SAfrican or Indian team. Anyone can get a gig with England, so they'd probably have him.

What absolute dross? He'll bowl spells where he'll not be threatening but he'll try to keep the runs down in a spell like that. In spells liek that Powell goes for runs. No comparison really.

 

[roseboy64]

Call me old-fashioned, but I believe that a wicketkeeper's day job has to be behind the stumps. Like Holding, I think the wickie's glovework is more important than his batting, and as far as I can see, there is no-one in the Caribbean who's a better keeper than Ramdin right now....

Granted, he's probably not good enough to bat at seven, so I would drop him down to eight. Similarly, Bravo is not consistent enough to hold on to number six, a lot like Flintoff in that respect. So, maybe Bravo could bat at seven.

1) Gayle
2) Other opener
3) Sarwan
4) Hinds/Simmons/someone else
5) Chanderpaul
6) Nash
7) Bravo
8) Ramdin
9) Taylor
10) Benn
11) Edwards

But if the WIndies are in a must-win situation, and are going for the win in England, this could be the team....

1) Gayle
2) Other opener
3) Sarwan
4) Nash
5) Chanderpaul
6) Bravo
7) Ramdin
8) Sammy
9) Taylor
10) Benn
11) Edwards

Wouldn't it be better for Bravo and Nash to switch positions? Nash has shown he can do that role so far. Would much rather Bravo in a position where he can score more freely.

 

[Furball]

Statistically at least, Taylor and Edwards over the past 2 years are up there with most new ball pairings in Test cricket.

Of course they can both massively improve, but the West Indies have a good thing going with these two.

 

[roseboy64]

Would it be better for the other seamer to be first change or Edwards' opening partner?

 

[shivfan]

Wouldn't it be better for Bravo and Nash to switch positions? Nash has shown he can do that role so far. Would much rather Bravo in a position where he can score more freely.

I dunno....

Number four has been a problem for us. I'm not convinced that Bravo is the answer.

I think we need Nash where he can repair an innings, and build a score with other batsmen. Drop him down too low, and we have the problem we had with Shiv a few years ago. He finishes not out, and the WIndies have a low score....

I think Nash should bat higher than Bravo.

 

[Uppercut]

Call me old-fashioned, but I believe that a wicketkeeper's day job has to be behind the stumps. Like Holding, I think the wickie's glovework is more important than his batting, and as far as I can see, there is no-one in the Caribbean who's a better keeper than Ramdin right now....

Granted, he's probably not good enough to bat at seven, so I would drop him down to eight. Similarly, Bravo is not consistent enough to hold on to number six, a lot like Flintoff in that respect. So, maybe Bravo could bat at seven.

1) Gayle
2) Other opener
3) Sarwan
4) Hinds/Simmons/someone else
5) Chanderpaul
6) Nash
7) Bravo
8) Ramdin
9) Taylor
10) Benn
11) Edwards

Bravo may not be good enough to bat at 6, but he most certainly isn't good enough to bowl as part of a four-man attack. If there's noone better then that's okay, it's not like the player batting at number four (whichever of those you choose) is going to add a great deal to the side either. Hum...

 

[Scaly piscine]

Should pick a wrist spinner or another seamer instead of Benn. Benn just means you waste most of Gayle's bowling because of the repetition of having two economical but rubbish finger spinners.

 

[garage flower]

Bravo got the potential to be a top 6 bat no doubt. But to date in his career, he batting is too eratic, so # 7 is the safest bet for him

Ramdin is their best option, but just not a test match number 7.

Chanderpaul/Nash #5 & #6 is a solid middle order balance, that i don't think the windies should distrupt at all.

The problems are finding a partner for Gayle & a # 4 bat. Simmons could take one of those spots in the long term, but yea overall these two roles is a cat & mouse ATM.

7 & 8 may be the ideal batting slots for Bravo/Ramdin, given their inconsistent test performances, but that would leave West Indies too short in the bowling department and put too much pressure on Bravo the bowler. With Sammy and Taylor in the test team, Windies would have a comparatively strong lower order to offset the fragile middle order, and a better balance overall. If a more penetrative 3rd seamer emerges to "replace" Sammy (I realise he isn't in the team at the moment, but can't imagine he'll be overlooked in the medium term if said 3rd seamer doesn't emerge soon and Baker turns out not to be it), Windies should take the more aggressive route.

If West Indies cricket was blessed with a surfeit of top notch middle order bats then I might view things differently, but on the evidence of the latest series, picking a 4th middle order batsman (i.e. after Shiv/Sars/Nash) and playing Bravo at 7 wouldn't add enough to the team to justify the loss of a bowler.

EDIT: Sorry, I realise Uppercut's made much the same point - and far more succinctly - above. Guess I should have got with the programme and quoted it with a "+1".

 

[Woodster]

Bravo may not be good enough to bat at 6, but he most certainly isn't good enough to bowl as part of a four-man attack. If there's noone better then that's okay, it's not like the player batting at number four (whichever of those you choose) is going to add a great deal to the side either. Hum...

I'm not sure, I like the look of this line-up and have been a fan of WI selecting a balance in the side like this for a good while now.

While it may look a little negative at times, in terms of if they have the quality to take 20 wickets to win Tests, the first I would look to do with the WI side (more so perhaps 12 months ago) was become a more difficult team to beat. And with this side selected, Bravo in at 7 and Ramdin at 8, it certainly gives good depth in the batting department.

Having persevered with Powell for so long, it does lead me to believe that there is very little quick bowling in the Caribbean that is up to international standard. Therefore the inclusion of Bravo instead of Powell strengthens all three disciplines and makes WI stronger. Are there better or more consistently accurate bowling options than Bravo ? With Bravo as a fourth bowling option, that still leaves the part-time offerings of Nash, Gayle, and Hinds/Simmons. Not the most penetrative WI attack admittedly.

In terms of the number 4 position, I think the player selected here should be given time and a chance to acclimatise to Test cricket. Whether they should bat 4 is debateable, splitting Nash and Chanderpaul and not allowing them to bat together should go some way towards bringing the crowds back to the grounds.

If there is a viable third quick bowling option, I would seriously considering passing on a specialist spinner, and making best use of Gayle and Hinds, certainly in England.

 

[roseboy64]

The persisiting with Powell was because the other pacer options who're available weren't experienced enough or injured. Plus he performs well in the nets. Some good performances by some pacers this season backed up with previous seasons' performances have happened though.