Thilan Samaraweera: a victim of black magic?

[Nishan]

and shouldnt scoring hundreads on turning pitches count? only seaming pitches are difficult is it?

 

[Migara]

Holes all through that argument Migara. Ever thought batsmens averages in Australia are higher because they've had Ponting, Hayden, Gilchrist, Waugh and Hussey dominating damn near anything? Likewise, batsmen in Sri Lanka average lower because they've had one of the most unplayable bowlers ever in their line-up.

The difficulty of the pitch determined by batsman playing on it or boiwlers bowling on it?

 

[Xuhaib]

Lets hope Thilan gets out of this in the best of health.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

and shouldnt scoring hundreads on turning pitches count? only seaming pitches are difficult is it?

Of course they count. But you've got to be just as adept at making runs in all conditions. He's obviously very good at making runs on featherbeds, but who isn't?

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

And yes, best wishes to Thilan in getting himself right.

 

[0RI0N]

And yes, best wishes to Thilan in getting himself right.

/yes

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Massively overrated and is arguably the worst batsman in the history of the game to have averaged over 50 after a significant amount of Tests.

This furthermore illustrates the fact that the majority of subcontient batsman that average over 50 are frauds who cash-in on dead subcontient wickets. The likes of Sehwag, Jayawardene, Mohammad Yousuf, Younis Khan, etc are nowhere near some of the modern great batsman of the game like Ponting, Lara, Kallis, Pietersen and Hayden.

Tendulkar, Dravid and Gavaskar are the only subcontient batsman to have averaged over 50 outside the subcontient. Only batsman that are really worth of mention, TBH.

Cricinfo Statsguru - Test matches - Batting records

 

[chaminda_00]

Massively overrated and is arguably the worst batsman in the history of the game to have averaged over 50 after a significant amount of Tests.

This furthermore illustrates the fact that the majority of subcontient batsman that average over 50 are frauds who cash-in on dead subcontient wickets. The likes of Sehwag, Jayawardene, Mohammad Yousuf, Younis Khan, etc are nowhere near some of the modern great batsman of the game like Ponting, Lara, Kallis, Pietersen and Hayden.

Tendulkar, Dravid and Gavaskar are the only subcontient batsman to have averaged over 50 outside the subcontient. Only batsman that are really worth of mention, TBH.

Cricinfo Statsguru - Test matches - Batting records

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Cricinfo Statsguru - Test matches - Batting records

Apart from some batsmen that dominated weak/inexperienced Test attacks (60s and early 80s for Sri Lanka). There not a lot of batsmen from modern batsmen that have records that are great on the sub continent. Does that mean Viv Richards is a poor batsmen cus he averaged only 44 in dusty pitches in Asia.

Players will always play better on conditions that they are used to. Then those the odd batsmen who for what ever reason dominates in conditions that in theory they shouldn't. There not too many batsmen you can't find a region or country they struggle.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

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Cricinfo Statsguru - Test matches - Batting records

Apart from some batsmen that dominated weak/inexperienced Test attacks (60s and early 80s for Sri Lanka). There not a lot of batsmen from modern batsmen that have records that are great on the sub continent. Does that mean Viv Richards is a poor batsmen cus he averaged only 44 in dusty pitches in Asia.

Players will always play better on conditions that they are used to. Then those the odd batsmen who for what ever reason dominates in conditions that in theory they shouldn't. There not too many batsmen you can't find a region or country they struggle.

Exactly because it's obviously going to be equally as hard for non-subcontient batsman to adjust to conditions in the subcontient as it will for subcontient batsman to adjust to conditions outside the subcontient.

The point is, when two subcontient teams play eachother then 9 times out of 10, it is a run-fest, which furthermore boosts their averages. Pitches in Indian, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh are very much similar, so the away team hardly needs to adjust to different conditions, so they are at little disadvantage.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Exactly because it's obviously going to be equally as hard for non-subcontient batsman to adjust to conditions in the subcontient as it will for subcontient batsman to adjust to conditions outside the subcontient.

The point is, when two subcontient teams play eachother then 9 times out of 10, it is a run-fest, which furthermore boosts their averages. Pitches in Indian, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh are very much similar, so the away team hardly needs to adjust to different conditions, so they are at little disadvantage.

Doesn't explain why India traditionally find it tough to beat Sri Lanka in a series in Sri Lanka.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

The problem is is that he doesn't play outside of Asia enough to bring down his average to what it should be. 12 out of 49 tests out of the subcontinent hardly gives an indication of how good or otherwise he is. This is for all the same reasons Ponting would not be seen the best since Bradman because he averages 60+ in Oceania.

 

[Richard]

Lets hope Thilan gets out of this in the best of health.

Yeah, ind33d. First thoughts on reading this thread today were "he's been a victim of rather more than that just now".

 

[Richard]

Massively overrated and is arguably the worst batsman in the history of the game to have averaged over 50 after a significant amount of Tests.

This furthermore illustrates the fact that the majority of subcontient batsman that average over 50 are frauds who cash-in on dead subcontient wickets. The likes of Sehwag, Jayawardene, Mohammad Yousuf, Younis Khan, etc are nowhere near some of the modern great batsman of the game like Ponting, Lara, Kallis, Pietersen and Hayden.

 

[Richard]

Despite the fact the majority of wickets on the subcontinent are easier to bat on (such as Pakistani wickets)

I really don't see where this perception comes from. Sure, most subcontinental wickets are generally slower and lower than those from Australia or South Africa, but the notion that they're flatter (ie, have less uneven bounce) is plain wrong - if anything subcontinental wickets tend to be more uneven than those from Australia or South Africa, or New Zealand now there's drop-ins there. About all they (subcontinent wickets) generally tend to lack is movement off the seam. Most Sri Lankan pitches and some (less of late than normal, but hopefully this is temporary) Indian ones also tend to turn well. All right, Pakistani pitches are generally bowlers' graveyards but there've been plenty of exceptions to this as well.

The claim that Samaraweera is a non-seaming-track bully has, to date, some amount of truth in it - as I think I mentioned a long while ago in this thread. But the claim he's a flat-track bully, because all subcontinent pitches offer nothing to bowlers, is plain nonsense.

 

[chaminda_00]

There are slight differences between all the countries. Some people from the sub continent feel that pitches outside Asia are all the same, due to significant differences of sub continent pitches and pitches in other countries.

For examples pitches in Colombo are similar to Indian tracks. But the pitches in Kandy and Galle are massively different. They turn from day one and there is uneven bounce. Whereas Colombo pitches are slow and low, but even bounce like some Indian tracks.

Then you have Pakistan pitches that generally have more moisture when they played in the main cricket season around December.

That the other issue a lot of matches aren't played in the real cricket season for the sub continent. And therefore you have roads.

Would be interesting to see cricket in Australia during May and if people don't complain about the quality of the pitches.

 

[Uppercut]

The "flat sub-continental pitches" idea is a funny one. I'm not entirely sure where it comes from. Here's a breakdown of the overall average for each country over the past 20 years:

South Africa- 28.88
West Indies- 29.94
New Zealand- 30.39
Sri Lanka- 30.77
Pakistan- 31.79
Australia- 31.84
England- 31.95
India- 32.29

It's not a perfect analysis, but it's hard to argue with. Truth be told, batting really isn't that much easier in Asia. What this particular breakdown demonstrates to me is that Jacques Kallis is ridiculously underrated.

 

[The Sean]

Is it possible to see those numbers for this decade only? I don't think anyone is claiming the subcontinent pitches were highways in 1989. If there's still no significant difference then fair play.

 

[Uppercut]

Is it possible to see those numbers for this decade only? I don't think anyone is claiming the subcontinent pitches were highways in 1989. If there's still no significant difference then fair play.

I was more referring to the use in arguments against the careers of players like Inzi, Tendulkar, Dravid etc. so i used the last 20 years. You could get the figures for since 2000 too if you like.

 

[Richard]

I reckon pitches in India have been as flat as anywhere since 2001/02 but not neccessarily Sri Lanka. And I know Pakistan was notorious for road decks as far back as the 1960s.

Of course, relative weight of scoring is not neccessarily a good reflection of flatness of pitch. Other factors (ground size especially, but also sometimes skill of home bowlers) will also impact on that.

A flat pitch at The ARG or Taunton (to pick two places notorious for them) will produce totally different patterns of scoring than a flat pitch at Derby or (until recently) The Oval. The former two are postage-stamp sized and the latter two nice and big.

 

[The Sean]

I was more referring to the use in arguments against the careers of players like Inzi, Tendulkar, Dravid etc. so i used the last 20 years. You could get the figures for since 2000 too if you like.

Ah fair enough mate, understand where you're coming from now.