*Official* England in West Indies

[superkingdave]

2-1 Windies I reckon, 2-0 if Harmison plays both games

 

[andruid]

?!

Powell is certainly not a specialist batsman by any stretch of the imagination.

Whooosh!!!?

 

[Manee]

Interesting read, your thoughts on Broad have been consistent & interesting since last summer. I think the stamina issue may be why he hasn't been getting long spells from Strauss, and why Strauss is receiving flak for not bowling him enough.

Definitely - as quite a lanky chap, I am not surprised his bowling does fall away when he is fatigued as there would be less coordination in the action and longer levers to drag you off target.

 

[Uppercut]

So can England still win this series? Would probably bet on a 1-1 draw right now, am pretty confidant that England will win at least one of the last two test matches even if Flintoff is injured. We all know that the batting is pretty fragile but there are just about enough runs in the side (given the opposition) and Cook is bound to a get a big score sometime soon. Just remains to be seen if the bowling can be good enough, think an awful lot depends on the West Indies batting.

Depends whether they get result pitches. West Indies outplayed England on a pitch that would always produce a result. England had to try to force one when they were on top, and came up just short.

 

[zaremba]

England faced what, 6 overs or something on the 3rd day. Really difficult finding someone to bowl those isn't it after 90 or so overs split between 5 bowlers, that period was more awkward for the batting side than the bowlers. After that all that happens is instead of England having a full 5th day to bowl, they have have a full 4th day. That isn't a good enough reason to cut 30+ overs from what WI needed to survive to get a draw. Against SA England were screwed by Panesar being completely and utterly impotent, end of story.

Pchah. I wasn't talking about the 6 or 7 overs at the end of that day. I was talking about giving the bowlers a morning's break the next day. Which would have made a difference to them given that they otherwise would have faced bowling for 2 1/2 days or so solidly, and with a depleted attack. This included Harmison who was reportedly suffering from heat exhaustion and could have done with spending the next morning in an ice bath, looking at photos of Ashington and dreaming wistfully of his Mam's cooking.

So it seemed (and still seems) a reasonable decision to me.

 

[Jigga988]

Depends whether they get result pitches. West Indies outplayed England on a pitch that would always produce a result. England had to try to force one when they were on top, and came up just short.

Barbados should be a pitch where Windies should prosper and if Harmy can't do well in Barbados it should be curtains for him, it's historically a good fast bouncy pitch so should get some more excitement from that game.

 

[Jigga988]

Yeah it was 1997/98 that the downward spiral really begun - for the 11 years before that it'd just been a very, very gradual downward slant. Since 1997/98, WI have been flattened routinely by most teams. And certainly this one series won't in itself end the downward curve, any more than the other few small steps they've been taking since a year or so ago. I think rock-bottom was probably reached on the England tour in 2007. From the 2007/08 South Africa tour onwards, there's been a notable upward curve. But there's still much to be done, even if they were to end-up winning this series 3-0.

Agreed, also, I think our guys will be able to cope with away tours - contary to popular belief here... there's not really a reason why we shouldn't, Windies biggest weakness - swing is becoming less apparent practically everywhere. Sarwan seems to be a batsmen who likes it at home, but then again Chanders always gets a lot of scores away and tbh, looks more comfertable away of late...

In the subcontinent is a place where we might struggle, but we are improving all the time against spin and Benn should hopefully be the man to take advantage of subcontinent conditions. In places like South Africa, NZ etc. Edwards and Taylor have proved they can be v. dangerous

In the future, Bravo will be back, and that would strengthen the lower order as well as bolster the seam attack and provide some reverse and conventional swing, in a few years Barath and Daren Bravo will replace the likes of Smith and Hinds... Ramdin is improving but he's still pretty weak, and that third specialist seamer problem is the only thing I see holding us back, Roach has pace and a bit of swing but sprays it around and Baker is NOT a test bowler by any stretch of the imagination but like I said before, the future is looking good, and the Windies will go from strength to strength...

 

[Furball]

The Windies will truly prosper when they find a decent 3rd pace option.

I'm really liking the look of what Taylor and Edwards have become in the last year or so, they've got the potential to be one of the best pace bowling duos around, but they need a tidy 3rd man to keep the pressure on when they take a break.

 

[Pothas]

Barbados should be a pitch where Windies should prosper and if Harmy can't do well in Barbados it should be curtains for him, it's historically a good fast bouncy pitch so should get some more excitement from that game.

It will never be curtains for Harmy, problem is that we never give him a long enough run in the side to prove that he is fundementaly inept. I actually hope he plays the next few tests and in doing so proves that he is not good enough.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Would seriously think of putting in Khan for Harmison for the next test - will never in a million years happen.

 

[Jigga988]

It will never be curtains for Harmy, problem is that we never give him a long enough run in the side to prove that he is fundementaly inept. I actually hope he plays the next few tests and in doing so proves that he is not good enough.

Hasn't he proved that like a million times already in the past couple years, has had one decent series since his return in to the side - against SA - and everything prior and after this has been shocking... his supposed 'bounce' is nothing without pace and aggresion to back it up... dead weight for mine and I'm baffled as to what the selectors are doing in holding on to him... First, I thought he was in there because KP liked him and KP was captain but now I dont have a clue :S

 

[Pup Clarke]

As Goughy has said previously in this thread and others, if Harmison only bowls around 80mph there are far better operaters in the country who bowl that pace but pitch the ball up and are far more accurate.Of the top of my head...

Davies
Shreck
Chapple
Hoggard
Tremlett
Kabir

 

[Manee]

Harmison himself says he is an average 80mph bowler (went on to say he is the best 90mph bowler in the country (Flintoff anyone)).

 

[Manee]

As Goughy has said previously in this thread and others, if Harmison only bowls around 80mph there are far better operaters in the country who bowl that pace but pitch the ball up and are far more accurate.Of the top of my head...

Davies
Shreck
Chapple
Hoggard
Tremlett
Kabir

Kabir is quicker than 80mph, more like 85mph and should be in the Test team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111oneoneone

 

[Jigga988]

Kabir is quicker than 80mph, more like 85mph and should be in the Test team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111oneoneone

There must be some prejudicial issues, to ignore the likes of Shah and Ali is a bit suspect, and there are others in the past of Asian persuasion that have been poorly dealt with...

 

[Pothas]

Don't think that is true at all. Nasser was captain after all. Think Ali can count himself a tad unlucky but so can Hoggard who was dumped the same time as Harmison but hasn't even been conisdered since. Similarly the likes of Sidebottom were ignored under Fletcher.

 

[Manee]

There must be some prejudicial issues, to ignore the likes of Shah and Ali is a bit suspect, and there are others in the past of Asian persuasion that have been poorly dealt with...

I would not agree with that. I don't think prejudice exists in England cricket selection, I just think he has been ignored because his wickets were taken in Divison 2 and there is a perceived issue that he lacks pace as in his last international stint. He seems to have put on a yard of pace though.

 

[Furball]

There must be some prejudicial issues, to ignore the likes of Shah and Ali is a bit suspect, and there are others in the past of Asian persuasion that have been poorly dealt with...

Remind me again what lineage Amjad Khan and Ravinder Bopara have?

 

[Neil Pickup]

There must be some prejudicial issues, to ignore the likes of Shah and Ali is a bit suspect, and there are others in the past of Asian persuasion that have been poorly dealt with...

Bollocks.

 

[Furball]

I've already posted what will happen if Harmison gets discarded.

And the thing with Harmison is that if he were to be discarded, I could script the next 6 months of his career:

Goes back to Durham.
Starts ok in the County Championship.
England win Test Series vs West Indies unconvincingly. At least one member of the Sky commentary team in the 2nd Test will bemoan the lack of Harmison.
Starts finding his rhythm bowling for Durham.
England lose 1st Ashes Test, with Harmison simultaneously taking near career best figures.
Harmison bowls consistently at 90+mph in a televised County 1 dayer. His actual bowling performance will be irrelevant.
The phrase "Harmison needs to be bowling plenty of overs to find his rhythm" will be heard, probably from Nasser Hussain.
England lose 2nd Ashes Test, with one member of the pace attack bowling at c. 80mph, taking match figures of 1-150.
Harmison is recalled for the 3rd Test. Bowls an excellent first spell, taking 2 key wickets. Rest of his match performance is average. Proclamations of Harmison being "back to his best."
Does little with the ball in the remaining 2 Tests, save for 2 glorious fast yorkers.
Bowls suprisingly well in the ODI series, largely because the Aussies are knackered from their international schedule, and still drunk from the post Ashes victory party. Sky commentary team remind us that this is why Harmison is so vital to the team.
Starts well, and fades in the Champions Trophy.
Has dreadful start in first tour game in South Africa. Goes wicketless, leaks runs at 3-4 an over. Continues dreadful form into first 2 Tests.
Harmison's place in England squad is again questioned.
Dropped for final test, amid rumours of the selectors losing patience.

And so on, and so forth.